You know who I blame for the Rosebowl loss?... Ill tell you
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colorado_loves_football
Yeofoot wrote:That does make sense CLF. I know you will disagree with this, but I just want a bowl system that if TCU is the best team in the country, they'll have the opportunity to play for the National Championship. That's all I really want.
At the moment, that's not likely to happen, but a step at a time, I guess.
Under next year's rules, TCU gets in (barely). Probably this year, TCU wasn't quite ready, which maybe explains why they lost to SMU. But like I said, give them credit for what they've done!
Second longest winning streak (10 games). Texas has longest at 20.
Last edited by colorado_loves_football on Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yeofoot
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Wow Riche, that's great, now you've passed anger, and entered the stage of blame, where you just insult me, c'mon, the fact that you even responded to my lame argument about OU, makes me laugh. Keep throwing all the arguments you want at me. We won, you lost. My phone rang about 20 times after the game, from other people that were losing their mind in euphoria. You on the other hand, cussed the horns, griped to all your buddies how you were robbed. I've been walking on cloud nine, you're getting all riled up. Jan 4th, well the 5th on the East Coast contained one of the happiest moments of the year, it was the most unsettling for you. What's next Riche? I just keep pushing the envelope on ridiculous responses, don't mistake sarcasm for ignorance. Oh, and I will keep going. I've been waiting my whole life to be the champs and I'm going to take full advantage. My team won. So, I see you dropped your how and why. I think the next stage is sadness. I'll send you a hankey. We won! Hook 'Em
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Yeofoot
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It's amazing how conferences competing with other conferences gets OU and UT fans rooting for each other in bowl games. It really blows my mind. I said it before, but, man was it weird to be rooting for AP against Oregon. My Big-12 pride seems to supercede my anti-OU, I don't think I could ever root for A&M though.
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Spence
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Hey Spence,
I'm still unable to post a reply to other people's comments.
Could you paste this reply from me, to the end of Rich's Thread:
You Know Who I Blame for the Rose Bowl Loss?... I'll Tell You
(If you don't, then I'll have typed this whole thing for nothing and my carpal tunnel just got a whole lot closer to failing)
(my response is)
===========================
The actual "Official Count" of usc's National Championships is lower than 11.
If you are ready to discount the National title usc was awarded by the AP following the 2003 season, we are down to 10.
After all. It may be true that the AP has been around longer than the BCS.
Never the less, the AP signed on as an "Official" member of the BCS at its foundation.
And, seeing as how the AP was "Officially" a member of the BCS at the time they awarded the trojans with a co-championship along side of LSU, one would have to assess the credibility of the AP's integrity in jeopardy.
As, by signing to be an "Official" member of the BCS, the AP acknowledged the BCS as the "Official" selectors of the National title game.
Now, let's look at the other titles usc claims:
1928
1931
1932
1939
1962
1967
1972
1974
1978
2004
Of course, like the trojan's 2003 claim, this is not entirely accurate, either.
I really hate to do this to any trojan fans out there, and I know I'll catch some flack for this, but, let's take a look back at history.
First, if we're going to exclude something as promenant as a National title, we have to do some research, and know the "Official" consensus as to what can be considered, National acclamation.
So here is what the experts of the past tell us.
National Polls that have crowned historic College Football National Champions, as reported by the College Football Hall of Fame and The College Football headquarters:
1869 - 1882, "The National Championship Foundation"
1883 - 1918, "The Helms Athletic Foundation"
1919 - 1935, "The Helms Athletic Foundation" and "The College Footballs Researchers Association"
1936 - 1948, "The Associated Press"
1949 - 1957, "The Associated Press" and "The United Press" (coaches poll)
1958 - 1990, "The Associated Press" and "The United Press International" (coaches poll)
1991 -1997, "The Associated Press" and the "USA Today/ESPN coaches poll"
1998 - 2005, the "BCS"
(remember, the ap was officially a portion of the BCS when they chose to split the title)(so, they kind of went against their own system, and crowned an "Unofficial" co-championship)
.
Okay, now that we have a solid basis to reflect on, let's take a look at usc's championships.
As I said above, if we exclude the trojan's 2003 title, we're down to 10.
So, we need to look back at usc's next closest Championship in question.
That would be, 1939.
In the preseason of 2004, usc did some research, and found out that an Illinois poll system (the Dickensen System) saw the usc trojans as the 1939 National Champions. And so, decide to award themselves as the 1939 National Champs.
However, the Dickensen System only focused on teams West of Illinois, and some Northern teams.
The Dickensen System never once figured in teams from the Southern, or Eastern Regions.
Hence, the Dickensen System was a 'Regional' poll, and "Not" a 'National' poll.
Essentially, if the Dickensen System were used today, it would only include; the pac-10, Big-10, Mountain West, and WAC conferences. And the Longhorns wouldn't have played in the Rose Bowl.
In 1939, Texas A&M was awarded the Associated Press poll's National Title.
In 1939, Texas A&M had a final record of 11-0-0
In 1939, USC had a final record of 8-0-2
The Associated Press poll's final ranking had usc #3.
Total number of polls invovled in ranking a National Championship in 1939:
31
Of those polls:
29 awarded Texas A&M the National title.
They were:
1rst-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
"Associated Press"
Bill Libby
Boand System
Bob Kirlin
Bob Royce
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
College Football Researchers Association
College Football USA
David Wilson
Dunkel System
George Trevor
Harry DeVold
Harry Frye
Helms Athletic Foundation
Houlgate System
James Howell
James Whalen
Jim Koger
Lawrence Baker
Massy Ratings
Mel Smith
National Championship Foundation
Patrick Premo
What's What
Williamson System
2 awarded usc the National title.
They were:
Dickensen System
Roy Byrne
However, by looking back, and seeing that the College Football headquarters recognizes the "Associated Press" as the official Ntional Ratings system from 1936 to 1948, it would seem USC was not the national champions of 1939.
.
So, there goes that championship.
That leaves usc with 9 titles.
But wait, there's more info.
USC claims a National title in 1928.
Though, let's examine this one a little more closely.
1928 the "Helms Athletic Foundation" and "College Football Researdhers Foundation" both awarded Georgia Tech with the National title, after Ga Tech's 10-0-0 final record.
Total number of polls ranking a National Champion in 1928:
26
Of those polls:
23 awarded Georgia Tech as the National Champions.
They were:
1rst-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
Bill Libby
Billingsly Report
Boand System
Bob Royce
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
"College Footballs Researchers Association"
David Wilson
Earl Jessen
George Trevor
Harry Frye
"Helms Athletic Foundation"
Houlgate System
James Howell
James Whalen
Jim Koger
Mel Smith
National Champioship Foundation
Park Davis
Patrick Premo
Polling System.
4 awarded usc with the National title.
They were:
Bob Kirlin
Dickensen System
Jim Koger
Soren Sorensen
By checking back to the College Football Headquarters' recognition as to who "officially" awards the National title, we see that the "Helms Athletic Foundation" and the "College Footballs Researchers Association" were the accepted sources from 1919 to 1935.
Both of which gave the 1928 Championship to Georgia Tech.
Niether of which gave the 1928 Championship to USC.
.
There goes another self awarded trojan title.
I think we're down to, what... 8 now.
So, on a recap, USC has 8 "Official" National titles, and hold a "Self Proclaimed" 3 more.
Now, for the final count, usc's National title years were:
1931
1932
1962
1967
1972
1974
1978
2004
More interesting facts.
USC shared the National title with:
Oklahoma, 1974
Alabama, 1978
Which means, USC holds exactly 6 undesputed National titles.
.
Not that I'm trying to be confrontational, just posting the Historical Facts.
Cane...
_________________
Cane...
Cane is having some trouble with the new board. He wanted me to post this for him.
I'm still unable to post a reply to other people's comments.
Could you paste this reply from me, to the end of Rich's Thread:
You Know Who I Blame for the Rose Bowl Loss?... I'll Tell You
(If you don't, then I'll have typed this whole thing for nothing and my carpal tunnel just got a whole lot closer to failing)
(my response is)
===========================
The actual "Official Count" of usc's National Championships is lower than 11.
If you are ready to discount the National title usc was awarded by the AP following the 2003 season, we are down to 10.
After all. It may be true that the AP has been around longer than the BCS.
Never the less, the AP signed on as an "Official" member of the BCS at its foundation.
And, seeing as how the AP was "Officially" a member of the BCS at the time they awarded the trojans with a co-championship along side of LSU, one would have to assess the credibility of the AP's integrity in jeopardy.
As, by signing to be an "Official" member of the BCS, the AP acknowledged the BCS as the "Official" selectors of the National title game.
Now, let's look at the other titles usc claims:
1928
1931
1932
1939
1962
1967
1972
1974
1978
2004
Of course, like the trojan's 2003 claim, this is not entirely accurate, either.
I really hate to do this to any trojan fans out there, and I know I'll catch some flack for this, but, let's take a look back at history.
First, if we're going to exclude something as promenant as a National title, we have to do some research, and know the "Official" consensus as to what can be considered, National acclamation.
So here is what the experts of the past tell us.
National Polls that have crowned historic College Football National Champions, as reported by the College Football Hall of Fame and The College Football headquarters:
1869 - 1882, "The National Championship Foundation"
1883 - 1918, "The Helms Athletic Foundation"
1919 - 1935, "The Helms Athletic Foundation" and "The College Footballs Researchers Association"
1936 - 1948, "The Associated Press"
1949 - 1957, "The Associated Press" and "The United Press" (coaches poll)
1958 - 1990, "The Associated Press" and "The United Press International" (coaches poll)
1991 -1997, "The Associated Press" and the "USA Today/ESPN coaches poll"
1998 - 2005, the "BCS"
(remember, the ap was officially a portion of the BCS when they chose to split the title)(so, they kind of went against their own system, and crowned an "Unofficial" co-championship)
.
Okay, now that we have a solid basis to reflect on, let's take a look at usc's championships.
As I said above, if we exclude the trojan's 2003 title, we're down to 10.
So, we need to look back at usc's next closest Championship in question.
That would be, 1939.
In the preseason of 2004, usc did some research, and found out that an Illinois poll system (the Dickensen System) saw the usc trojans as the 1939 National Champions. And so, decide to award themselves as the 1939 National Champs.
However, the Dickensen System only focused on teams West of Illinois, and some Northern teams.
The Dickensen System never once figured in teams from the Southern, or Eastern Regions.
Hence, the Dickensen System was a 'Regional' poll, and "Not" a 'National' poll.
Essentially, if the Dickensen System were used today, it would only include; the pac-10, Big-10, Mountain West, and WAC conferences. And the Longhorns wouldn't have played in the Rose Bowl.
In 1939, Texas A&M was awarded the Associated Press poll's National Title.
In 1939, Texas A&M had a final record of 11-0-0
In 1939, USC had a final record of 8-0-2
The Associated Press poll's final ranking had usc #3.
Total number of polls invovled in ranking a National Championship in 1939:
31
Of those polls:
29 awarded Texas A&M the National title.
They were:
1rst-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
"Associated Press"
Bill Libby
Boand System
Bob Kirlin
Bob Royce
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
College Football Researchers Association
College Football USA
David Wilson
Dunkel System
George Trevor
Harry DeVold
Harry Frye
Helms Athletic Foundation
Houlgate System
James Howell
James Whalen
Jim Koger
Lawrence Baker
Massy Ratings
Mel Smith
National Championship Foundation
Patrick Premo
What's What
Williamson System
2 awarded usc the National title.
They were:
Dickensen System
Roy Byrne
However, by looking back, and seeing that the College Football headquarters recognizes the "Associated Press" as the official Ntional Ratings system from 1936 to 1948, it would seem USC was not the national champions of 1939.
.
So, there goes that championship.
That leaves usc with 9 titles.
But wait, there's more info.
USC claims a National title in 1928.
Though, let's examine this one a little more closely.
1928 the "Helms Athletic Foundation" and "College Football Researdhers Foundation" both awarded Georgia Tech with the National title, after Ga Tech's 10-0-0 final record.
Total number of polls ranking a National Champion in 1928:
26
Of those polls:
23 awarded Georgia Tech as the National Champions.
They were:
1rst-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
Bill Libby
Billingsly Report
Boand System
Bob Royce
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
"College Footballs Researchers Association"
David Wilson
Earl Jessen
George Trevor
Harry Frye
"Helms Athletic Foundation"
Houlgate System
James Howell
James Whalen
Jim Koger
Mel Smith
National Champioship Foundation
Park Davis
Patrick Premo
Polling System.
4 awarded usc with the National title.
They were:
Bob Kirlin
Dickensen System
Jim Koger
Soren Sorensen
By checking back to the College Football Headquarters' recognition as to who "officially" awards the National title, we see that the "Helms Athletic Foundation" and the "College Footballs Researchers Association" were the accepted sources from 1919 to 1935.
Both of which gave the 1928 Championship to Georgia Tech.
Niether of which gave the 1928 Championship to USC.
.
There goes another self awarded trojan title.
I think we're down to, what... 8 now.
So, on a recap, USC has 8 "Official" National titles, and hold a "Self Proclaimed" 3 more.
Now, for the final count, usc's National title years were:
1931
1932
1962
1967
1972
1974
1978
2004
More interesting facts.
USC shared the National title with:
Oklahoma, 1974
Alabama, 1978
Which means, USC holds exactly 6 undesputed National titles.
.
Not that I'm trying to be confrontational, just posting the Historical Facts.
Cane...
_________________
Cane...
Cane is having some trouble with the new board. He wanted me to post this for him.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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mountainman
-
Spence
- Administrator
- Posts: 21256
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
- Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
- Contact:
Alabama has something like 17. Since the NCAA does not actually sanction a national championship, their really is no such thing in CFB. That's why it is referred to as the "mythical national championship" There is a general opinion that the AP champion and the coaches poll are the standard for recognizing national championships. The coaches poll began in 1950 although it was known as the UP or UPI poll. The AP poll was started in 1936. The first national championships were recognized by the national championship foundation from 1869 to 1882. After that it was the Helms Athletic Foundation from 1883 to 1935 and the College Football Researches Association from 1919 to 1935.
Any championships the schools claim from these sources are considered valid National Championships. Although it was in the middle to late 1930's when the era of modern football started. When the started wearing helmets and such.
Most schools claim every national championship awarded from any source so it is hard to pin down some of the claims, especially pre 1940.
Any championships the schools claim from these sources are considered valid National Championships. Although it was in the middle to late 1930's when the era of modern football started. When the started wearing helmets and such.
Most schools claim every national championship awarded from any source so it is hard to pin down some of the claims, especially pre 1940.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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Spence
- Administrator
- Posts: 21256
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
- Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
- Contact:
The following post is from "Cane from the Bend", he is still having problems posting. I am trying to find out what the problem is so I can help him get on himself.
Here I go again.
This one is going to have some "Content".
I just hope my fingers don't cramp while I type this one.
First off, I'd like to give a huge shout out to Spence.
Thanks for passing along my enlongated textbook drafts of info.
It's a good thing, that copy & paste invention.
.
It seems I stirred quite a few comments and questions concerning National titles in my previous reply.
So, seeing as how this is a College Football website, I felt, why not, and decided to post "All" of the officially recognized "National Champions" by the College Football Headquarters, and the College Football "Hall of Fame".
Why not?...
After all, if any site should have this information... why not this one?
Since I respect this site, and it is the one I frequent most... why wouldn't I post this?
This could be some good content to post up somewhere else on this site, so others who are passers by can read it, without knowing to search through numerous threads wondering if somebody might have added it.
.
Now I'd like to comment on Spence's last reply.
He is correct, as to say, the college football national championship is a "mythical champioship", as associated with the NCAA.
The game of college football predates the foundation of the NCAA by something like 30 or 40 years.
It wasn't until the 60's when questions started arising about, who won all of those titles, before the game we play now (such as, wearing leather caps, stuffing your shoulders with cotton, and having "20" players on the field by both teams "at the same time")
However, the NCAA College Football Headquarters does in fact recognize these next sources as reliable information on who the National Champions were/are, from the first days of College Football, upto the present. (in other words, should you go to the College Football Hall of Fame, these would be the sources who honor each historic team as the rightful champion)
Note: I am reposting these because I made a slight error the last time I listed them
===========================
the sources accepted for College Football National Championships;
from: 1869 - 1882
The National Championship Foundation
from: 1883 - 1918
Helms Athletic Foundation
from: 1919 - 1935
Helms Athletic Foundation &
College Football Researchers Association
from: 1936 - 1949
Associated Press
(I had originally posted, from: 1936 - 1948)
from : 1950 - 1957
Associated Press
United Press (coaches poll)
(I had originally posted, from: 1949 - 1957)
from: 1958 - 1990
Associated Press
United Press International (coaches poll)
from: 1991 - 1997
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN (coaches poll)
(I originally post it as, the "USA Tday/ESPN coaches poll")
from: 1998 - 2005
BCS
===========================
Though, Spence is right when saying that many of the titles awarded during the years in question are disputed by the independant Universities, who steak personal claims to more Championships than they are recognized for.
However, after extensive research, the NCAA compiled a tally of who they assumed were the best resource for information at the time, and lists the following as, what is considered and documented by the College Football's "Hall of Fame" to who the National Champions are recognized on file.
The list of National Champions, from 1869 to 2005, and the accepted source for awarding their titles, are
===========================
from 1869 - 1882 recognized Championship selector:
National Championship Foundation
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee
1869
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1870
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1871
no games played that year
1872
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1873
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1874
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1875
Harvard
Nationalchampionship Foundation
1876
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1877
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1878
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1879
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1880: first shared title
Princeton / Yale
National Championship Foundation
(both teams finished with a 4-0-1 record)
1881
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1882
Yale
National Championship Foundation
============================
from 1883 - 1918 recgnized Championship selector:
Helms Athletic Foundation
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee
1883
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1884
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1885
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1886
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1887
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1888
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1889
Pricneton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1890
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1891
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1892
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1893
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1894
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1895
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1896
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1897
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1898
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1899
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1900
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1901
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
1902
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
1903
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1904
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1905
Chicago
Helms Athletic Foundation
1906
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1907
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1908
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1909
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1910
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1911
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1912
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1913
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1914
Army
Helms Athletic Foundation
1915
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation
1916
Pittsburgh
Helms Athletic Foundation
1917
Georgia Tech
Helms Athletic Foundation
1918
Pittsburgh
Helms Athletic Foundation
===========================
from 1919 - 1935 recognized Championship selector:
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committee/organization
1919: second shared title
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
Illinois
College Football Researchers Association
1920
California
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1921: third shared title
California
College Football Researchers Association
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation
1922: fourth shared title
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation
Princeton
College Football Researchers Association
1923
Illinois
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1924
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1925
Alabama
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1926: fifth shared title
Alabama
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
Stanford
Helms Athletic Foundation
1927: sixth shared title
Illinois
Helms Athletic Foundation
Yale
College Football Researchers Association
1928
Georgia Tech
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1929
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1930: seventh shared title
Alabama
College Football Researchers Association
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
1931
USC
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1932
USC
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1933
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1934
Minnesota
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1935
Minnesota
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
===========================
from 1936 - 1949 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee
1936
Minnesota
Associate Press
1937
Pittsburgh
Associated Press
1938
TCU
Associated Press
1939
Texas A&M
Associated Press
1940
Minnesota
Associated Press
1941
Minnesota
Associated Press
1942
Ohio State
Associated Press
1943
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1944
Army
Associated Press
1945
Army
Associated Press
1946
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1947
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1948
Michigan
Associated Press
1949
Notre Dame
Associated Press
===========================
from 1950 - 1957 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
United Press (coaches poll)
Year
National Championship Team
championship selection
committee/organization
1950
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press
1951
Tennessee
Associated Press
United Press
1952
Michigan State
Associated Press
United Press
1953
Maryland
Associated Press
United Press
1954: eighth shared title
Ohio State
Associated Press
UCLA
United Press
1955
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press
1956
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press
1957: ninth shared title
Auburn
Associated Press
Ohio State
United Press
===========================
from 1958 - 1990 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
United Press International (coaches poll)
Year
National Championship Team
Championship seletion
committee/organization
1958
LSU
Associated Press
United Press International
1959
Syracuse
Associated Press
United Press International
1960
Minnesota
Associated Press
United Press International
1961
Alabama
Associated Press
United press International
1962
USC
Associated Press
United Press International
1963
Texas
Associated Press
United Press International
1964
Alabama
Associated Press
United Press International
1965: tenth shared title
Alabama
Associated Press
Michigan State
United Press International
1966
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United Press International
1967
USC
Associated Press
United Press International
1968
Ohio State
Associated Press
United Press International
1969
Texas
Associated Press
United Press International
1970: elenth shared title
Nebraska
Associated Press
Texas
United Press International
1971
Nebraska
Associated Press
United Press International
1972
Usc
Associated Press
United Press International
1973: twelfth shared title
Alabama
United Press International
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1974: thirteenth shared title
Oklahoma
Associated Press
USC
United Press International
1975
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press International
1976
Pittsburgh
Associated Press
United Press International
1977
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United press International
1978: fourteenth shared title
Alabama
Associated Press
Usc
United press International
1979
Alabama
Associated Press
United Press International
1980
Georgia
Associated Press
United Press International
1981
Clemson
Associated press
United press International
1982
Penn State
Associated Press
United Press International
1983
Miami
Associated Press
United press International
1984
BYU
Associated press
United press International
1985
Oklahoma
Associated press
United Press International
1986
Penn State
Associated Press
United press International
1987
Miami
Associated Press
United Press International
1988
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United Press International
1989
Miami
Associated Press
united Press international
1990: fifteenth shared title
Colorado
Associated Press
Georgia Tech
United Press International
===========================
from 1991 - 1997 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN (coaches poll)
Year
National Championship Team
Champiopnship selection
committee/organization
1991: sixteenth shared title
Miami
Associated Press
Washington
USA Today/CNN
1992
Alabama
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1993
florida state
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1994
Nebraska
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1995
Nebraska
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1996
Florida
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1997: seventeenth shared title
Michigan
Associated Press
Nebraska
USA Today/CNN
===========================
from 1998 - 2005 "Official" Championship selector:
BCS
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committe/organization
1998
Tennessee
BCS
1999
florida state
BCS
2000
Oklahoma
BCS
2001
Miami
BCS
2002
Ohio State
BCS
2003: * unofficial shared title
LSU
BCS
* USC
Associated Press
2004
USC
BCS
2005
Texas
BCS
===========================
And that's history folks.
.
Now, a final couple of comments on some other chatter.
Addressing the notre dame 1993 National title (or lack there of).
It is true, that #2 ND did in fact beat #1 fsu, in South Bend that season.
I was at the game and saw it fist hand.
Came down to the wire. Last play even.
The result, was ND and fsu swapping rankings.
However, it is also true that, the very next week, #1 ND lost to unranked Boston College, in South Bend.
It is a fact that both, ND and fsu finished the season with only one loss.
Though, this was also a time, where the team who lost later in the season (even one week away) suffered more in the polls.
Also, fsu's one and only loss came at the hands of the #2 team in the nation.
Nd's one loss, came at the hands of an unranked team.
It may suck to think of it in prospective.
But... thems the facts.
Not that I want to stand up for fsu in the least bit.
I actually hate doing it.
So, let's just say, I'm not defending florida stae, but rather, I'm defending the facts.
There, I almost feel better.
.
The other thing I wanted to mention.
I mean no offense to those who might agree with the AP's choice to split a share of the National title for USC in 2003.
But, it seems awfully hypocritical to award USC the 2003 National Champioship, because they finished with the same record as LSU did. Only with the explannation that USC should have been in the Sugar Bowl and not Oklahoma, when:
a.) originally, the AP said it was LSU who shouldn't have been in the Sugar Bowl, and that Oklahoma should have dropped to #2, while USC was #1
b.) it was the media who said Oklahoma could in all likelihood, get blown out in the Big XII title game, and still play in the Sugar Bowl
c.) wait until USC beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl to declare the Rose Bowl the AP's National Championship (had Michigan won, they would have been awarded the AP's national crown)
d.) not award the National Championship to Auburn in 2004, when they finished with 0 losses right along side of USC (no consistancy, how can you believe yourself to be credible with that kind of bias)
e.) it was the AP's diliberate higher ranking of Auburn and LSU that got them where they were in the polls, only to turn around and blame the BCS (hello, human polls account for 3/4ths the BCS standings, and that is why the AP ranked LSU and Auburn so high, as to manipulate the polls late in the season)
.
Funny thing is, it wasn't just the media who said it ahould have been #1 USC vs #2 Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl of 2003.
There were some others who frequently posted on our favourite forum that stated the same thing.
Only to turn around and say that Oklahoma had no buisness being in the Sugar Bowl, because of the way Kansas State blew them out in the Big-12 Championship game.
You know who you are.
And the other site is still currently effective.
If you need a reminder.
.
And , "that", is why those are weak arguements.
Again, no offense...
_________________
Cane...
Here I go again.
This one is going to have some "Content".
I just hope my fingers don't cramp while I type this one.
First off, I'd like to give a huge shout out to Spence.
Thanks for passing along my enlongated textbook drafts of info.
It's a good thing, that copy & paste invention.
.
It seems I stirred quite a few comments and questions concerning National titles in my previous reply.
So, seeing as how this is a College Football website, I felt, why not, and decided to post "All" of the officially recognized "National Champions" by the College Football Headquarters, and the College Football "Hall of Fame".
Why not?...
After all, if any site should have this information... why not this one?
Since I respect this site, and it is the one I frequent most... why wouldn't I post this?
This could be some good content to post up somewhere else on this site, so others who are passers by can read it, without knowing to search through numerous threads wondering if somebody might have added it.
.
Now I'd like to comment on Spence's last reply.
He is correct, as to say, the college football national championship is a "mythical champioship", as associated with the NCAA.
The game of college football predates the foundation of the NCAA by something like 30 or 40 years.
It wasn't until the 60's when questions started arising about, who won all of those titles, before the game we play now (such as, wearing leather caps, stuffing your shoulders with cotton, and having "20" players on the field by both teams "at the same time")
However, the NCAA College Football Headquarters does in fact recognize these next sources as reliable information on who the National Champions were/are, from the first days of College Football, upto the present. (in other words, should you go to the College Football Hall of Fame, these would be the sources who honor each historic team as the rightful champion)
Note: I am reposting these because I made a slight error the last time I listed them
===========================
the sources accepted for College Football National Championships;
from: 1869 - 1882
The National Championship Foundation
from: 1883 - 1918
Helms Athletic Foundation
from: 1919 - 1935
Helms Athletic Foundation &
College Football Researchers Association
from: 1936 - 1949
Associated Press
(I had originally posted, from: 1936 - 1948)
from : 1950 - 1957
Associated Press
United Press (coaches poll)
(I had originally posted, from: 1949 - 1957)
from: 1958 - 1990
Associated Press
United Press International (coaches poll)
from: 1991 - 1997
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN (coaches poll)
(I originally post it as, the "USA Tday/ESPN coaches poll")
from: 1998 - 2005
BCS
===========================
Though, Spence is right when saying that many of the titles awarded during the years in question are disputed by the independant Universities, who steak personal claims to more Championships than they are recognized for.
However, after extensive research, the NCAA compiled a tally of who they assumed were the best resource for information at the time, and lists the following as, what is considered and documented by the College Football's "Hall of Fame" to who the National Champions are recognized on file.
The list of National Champions, from 1869 to 2005, and the accepted source for awarding their titles, are
===========================
from 1869 - 1882 recognized Championship selector:
National Championship Foundation
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee
1869
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1870
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1871
no games played that year
1872
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1873
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1874
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1875
Harvard
Nationalchampionship Foundation
1876
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1877
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1878
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1879
Princeton
National Championship Foundation
1880: first shared title
Princeton / Yale
National Championship Foundation
(both teams finished with a 4-0-1 record)
1881
Yale
National Championship Foundation
1882
Yale
National Championship Foundation
============================
from 1883 - 1918 recgnized Championship selector:
Helms Athletic Foundation
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee
1883
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1884
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1885
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1886
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1887
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1888
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1889
Pricneton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1890
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1891
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1892
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1893
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1894
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1895
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1896
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1897
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1898
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1899
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1900
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1901
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
1902
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
1903
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1904
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1905
Chicago
Helms Athletic Foundation
1906
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1907
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1908
Pennsylvania
Helms Athletic Foundation
1909
Yale
Helms Athletic Foundation
1910
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1911
Princeton
Helms Athletic Foundation
1912
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1913
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
1914
Army
Helms Athletic Foundation
1915
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation
1916
Pittsburgh
Helms Athletic Foundation
1917
Georgia Tech
Helms Athletic Foundation
1918
Pittsburgh
Helms Athletic Foundation
===========================
from 1919 - 1935 recognized Championship selector:
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committee/organization
1919: second shared title
Harvard
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
Illinois
College Football Researchers Association
1920
California
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1921: third shared title
California
College Football Researchers Association
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation
1922: fourth shared title
Cornell
Helms Athletic Foundation
Princeton
College Football Researchers Association
1923
Illinois
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1924
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1925
Alabama
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1926: fifth shared title
Alabama
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
Stanford
Helms Athletic Foundation
1927: sixth shared title
Illinois
Helms Athletic Foundation
Yale
College Football Researchers Association
1928
Georgia Tech
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1929
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1930: seventh shared title
Alabama
College Football Researchers Association
Notre Dame
Helms Athletic Foundation
1931
USC
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1932
USC
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1933
Michigan
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1934
Minnesota
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
1935
Minnesota
Helms Athletic Foundation
College Football Researchers Association
===========================
from 1936 - 1949 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection committee
1936
Minnesota
Associate Press
1937
Pittsburgh
Associated Press
1938
TCU
Associated Press
1939
Texas A&M
Associated Press
1940
Minnesota
Associated Press
1941
Minnesota
Associated Press
1942
Ohio State
Associated Press
1943
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1944
Army
Associated Press
1945
Army
Associated Press
1946
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1947
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1948
Michigan
Associated Press
1949
Notre Dame
Associated Press
===========================
from 1950 - 1957 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
United Press (coaches poll)
Year
National Championship Team
championship selection
committee/organization
1950
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press
1951
Tennessee
Associated Press
United Press
1952
Michigan State
Associated Press
United Press
1953
Maryland
Associated Press
United Press
1954: eighth shared title
Ohio State
Associated Press
UCLA
United Press
1955
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press
1956
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press
1957: ninth shared title
Auburn
Associated Press
Ohio State
United Press
===========================
from 1958 - 1990 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
United Press International (coaches poll)
Year
National Championship Team
Championship seletion
committee/organization
1958
LSU
Associated Press
United Press International
1959
Syracuse
Associated Press
United Press International
1960
Minnesota
Associated Press
United Press International
1961
Alabama
Associated Press
United press International
1962
USC
Associated Press
United Press International
1963
Texas
Associated Press
United Press International
1964
Alabama
Associated Press
United Press International
1965: tenth shared title
Alabama
Associated Press
Michigan State
United Press International
1966
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United Press International
1967
USC
Associated Press
United Press International
1968
Ohio State
Associated Press
United Press International
1969
Texas
Associated Press
United Press International
1970: elenth shared title
Nebraska
Associated Press
Texas
United Press International
1971
Nebraska
Associated Press
United Press International
1972
Usc
Associated Press
United Press International
1973: twelfth shared title
Alabama
United Press International
Notre Dame
Associated Press
1974: thirteenth shared title
Oklahoma
Associated Press
USC
United Press International
1975
Oklahoma
Associated Press
United Press International
1976
Pittsburgh
Associated Press
United Press International
1977
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United press International
1978: fourteenth shared title
Alabama
Associated Press
Usc
United press International
1979
Alabama
Associated Press
United Press International
1980
Georgia
Associated Press
United Press International
1981
Clemson
Associated press
United press International
1982
Penn State
Associated Press
United Press International
1983
Miami
Associated Press
United press International
1984
BYU
Associated press
United press International
1985
Oklahoma
Associated press
United Press International
1986
Penn State
Associated Press
United press International
1987
Miami
Associated Press
United Press International
1988
Notre Dame
Associated Press
United Press International
1989
Miami
Associated Press
united Press international
1990: fifteenth shared title
Colorado
Associated Press
Georgia Tech
United Press International
===========================
from 1991 - 1997 recognized Championship selector:
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN (coaches poll)
Year
National Championship Team
Champiopnship selection
committee/organization
1991: sixteenth shared title
Miami
Associated Press
Washington
USA Today/CNN
1992
Alabama
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1993
florida state
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1994
Nebraska
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1995
Nebraska
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1996
Florida
Associated Press
USA Today/CNN
1997: seventeenth shared title
Michigan
Associated Press
Nebraska
USA Today/CNN
===========================
from 1998 - 2005 "Official" Championship selector:
BCS
Year
National Championship Team
Championship selection
committe/organization
1998
Tennessee
BCS
1999
florida state
BCS
2000
Oklahoma
BCS
2001
Miami
BCS
2002
Ohio State
BCS
2003: * unofficial shared title
LSU
BCS
* USC
Associated Press
2004
USC
BCS
2005
Texas
BCS
===========================
And that's history folks.
.
Now, a final couple of comments on some other chatter.
Addressing the notre dame 1993 National title (or lack there of).
It is true, that #2 ND did in fact beat #1 fsu, in South Bend that season.
I was at the game and saw it fist hand.
Came down to the wire. Last play even.
The result, was ND and fsu swapping rankings.
However, it is also true that, the very next week, #1 ND lost to unranked Boston College, in South Bend.
It is a fact that both, ND and fsu finished the season with only one loss.
Though, this was also a time, where the team who lost later in the season (even one week away) suffered more in the polls.
Also, fsu's one and only loss came at the hands of the #2 team in the nation.
Nd's one loss, came at the hands of an unranked team.
It may suck to think of it in prospective.
But... thems the facts.
Not that I want to stand up for fsu in the least bit.
I actually hate doing it.
So, let's just say, I'm not defending florida stae, but rather, I'm defending the facts.
There, I almost feel better.
.
The other thing I wanted to mention.
I mean no offense to those who might agree with the AP's choice to split a share of the National title for USC in 2003.
But, it seems awfully hypocritical to award USC the 2003 National Champioship, because they finished with the same record as LSU did. Only with the explannation that USC should have been in the Sugar Bowl and not Oklahoma, when:
a.) originally, the AP said it was LSU who shouldn't have been in the Sugar Bowl, and that Oklahoma should have dropped to #2, while USC was #1
b.) it was the media who said Oklahoma could in all likelihood, get blown out in the Big XII title game, and still play in the Sugar Bowl
c.) wait until USC beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl to declare the Rose Bowl the AP's National Championship (had Michigan won, they would have been awarded the AP's national crown)
d.) not award the National Championship to Auburn in 2004, when they finished with 0 losses right along side of USC (no consistancy, how can you believe yourself to be credible with that kind of bias)
e.) it was the AP's diliberate higher ranking of Auburn and LSU that got them where they were in the polls, only to turn around and blame the BCS (hello, human polls account for 3/4ths the BCS standings, and that is why the AP ranked LSU and Auburn so high, as to manipulate the polls late in the season)
.
Funny thing is, it wasn't just the media who said it ahould have been #1 USC vs #2 Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl of 2003.
There were some others who frequently posted on our favourite forum that stated the same thing.
Only to turn around and say that Oklahoma had no buisness being in the Sugar Bowl, because of the way Kansas State blew them out in the Big-12 Championship game.
You know who you are.
And the other site is still currently effective.
If you need a reminder.
.
And , "that", is why those are weak arguements.
Again, no offense...
_________________
Cane...
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
-
mountainman
The Associated Press (AP) should have been booted out of the selection and champion crowning process. 
The reason: They have a conflict of interest.
Sportswriters should write about the happenings in college football and not be given the opportunity to determine what happens in college football. That my friends is a conflict of interest.
The reason: They have a conflict of interest.
Sportswriters should write about the happenings in college football and not be given the opportunity to determine what happens in college football. That my friends is a conflict of interest.
-
Spence
- Administrator
- Posts: 21256
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
- Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
- Contact:
If USC wanted to play in that game they shouldn't have played a weak schedule. The system in place at that time stated that USC was 3rd based on SOS... leading up to the bowls, USC played only 1 ranked team. Doesn't exactly build a strong case for being the best team when you pad your schedule like that.
I agree with Lubbock on this one. Oklahoma was the proven commodity here. The way the polls work you are given certain advantages if you have been playing well in recent history. SC may have had the better team, but with Auburns crash and burn that year SC's SOS was sorely lacking. Oklahoma shouldn't have to apologize for being there. As I recall Jason White was hurt in the conference championship(hand) which may have accounted for their poor play in that game. as well as LSU's D.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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