theory: colleges that have a nfl team near by

[colorado_loves_football]

Well, look at it from this perspective:

Penn State sold out 97.7 percent of their seats.

Pitt sold out 61.96 percent of their seats.

Now, which is the better draw? It's clearly Penn State, but bar3cat5, can you verify if this is from last season, or all time average audiences?

I guess the question is, what makes Penn St. 'special'?
Other schools have a difficult time filling their stadium, it's not 'unique' to Pittsburgh. Colorado didn't regularly begin selling out their stadium until long after it was constructed, and even then, only occasionally.
Nebraska, I believe sets records for attendance, even in years they aren't very good.
So, this 'problem' isn't unique to Pennsylvania. I think with Pittsburgh, you are talking about a city that has had some problems, economically.
And, in rural areas, maybe there's greater support, than in urban. University of Denver, used to field a competitive football team.
A school fairly close to where I live, USC (S. Colorado) quit playing football, some time ago. (1980's). Pueblo is 'semi-urban'. It's the largest city in S. colorado. And, coincidentally, their main industry used to be steel. So, maybe there are some parallels there?
I'm stretching for an answer, but maybe someone can make sense of it.
USC-Pueblo quit football because the school felt it made 'economic' sense to do it. Since then, they have prioritized academics over athletics

[Eric]

Ann Arbor is near Detroit, and it's not like they can't fill stadiums. People come from around the state to watch the football games, in Michigan at least. I live near Flint and have been to a few Maize n' Blue games. The fans can travel.

As for what makes programs like Nebraska, Florida, Notre Dame, etc is the size of the fan base. What makes a fan base larger is success over time. They have built a football tradition at these schools. Not that a school like Pitt hasn't had their moments, they have with Marino and other years, but it isn't as prestigous as the big-time schools.

[Yeofoot]

Austin and Columbus are soooo much alike, they are big cities with a lot of money, and a lot of politicians and businessman. And talking about the horns and the bucks is always common conversation on the first 6 holes. And something that everyone knows a little about the topic.

[Jason G]

True, Spence and I get the point about the finances of the whole thing.
I'm trust trying to look at it from the Toledo perspective...how much more advantagous is it for Toledo to play OSU in Cleveland than it is in Columbus? Cleveland is even enemy territory for Toledo in the MAC.

I guess it seems to me that OSU is the one dictating more about the how, when, and where the game will be played than Toledo is, yet the Rockets are the home team. Would I expect it to be any other way? No, of course not, that is just the way things are in college football today. I don't know that that necessarily means it is the right way (from a purely competitive standpoint and not financial one) to go about things though.

I know it's a point I've probably beaten into the ground on this board but it might be yet another aspect of the game that could be improved with systematic scheduling.

Of course, this is all just my opinion and I may be in the vast minority here.

[Spence]

True, Spence and I get the point about the finances of the whole thing.
I'm trust trying to look at it from the Toledo perspective...how much more advantagous is it for Toledo to play OSU in Cleveland than it is in Columbus? Cleveland is even enemy territory for Toledo in the MAC.

I guess it seems to me that OSU is the one dictating more about the how, when, and where the game will be played than Toledo is, yet the Rockets are the home team. Would I expect it to be any other way? No, of course not, that is just the way things are in college football today. I don't know that that necessarily means it is the right way (from a purely competitive standpoint and not financial one) to go about things though.

I know it's a point I've probably beaten into the ground on this board but it might be yet another aspect of the game that could be improved with systematic scheduling.

Of course, this is all just my opinion and I may be in the vast minority here.

That isn't the case at all. Ohio State only requires that in state schools provide Ohio State with 15,000 tickets. Ohio State doesn't take there usual cut and doesn't require in state schools to guarantee them any money. Asking them to take Ohio dollars to Michigan would be asking too much. Ohio State plays one in state school a year. They do it to help that school raise money to fund their programs. If they don't play in Ohio Stadium they will play at PB stadium in Cincy or in Cleveland. No matter what the games will always be in Ohio or they won't play at all.

[mountainman]

True, Spence and I get the point about the finances of the whole thing.
I'm trust trying to look at it from the Toledo perspective...how much more advantagous is it for Toledo to play OSU in Cleveland than it is in Columbus? Cleveland is even enemy territory for Toledo in the MAC.

I guess it seems to me that OSU is the one dictating more about the how, when, and where the game will be played than Toledo is, yet the Rockets are the home team. Would I expect it to be any other way? No, of course not, that is just the way things are in college football today. I don't know that that necessarily means it is the right way (from a purely competitive standpoint and not financial one) to go about things though.

I know it's a point I've probably beaten into the ground on this board but it might be yet another aspect of the game that could be improved with systematic scheduling.

Of course, this is all just my opinion and I may be in the vast minority here.

I'll bet the Rockets are very satisfied with the arrangement. The dollars, the exposure, the opportunity, the intrinsic value, recruiting potential and a good trip for their fans to watch them play the Buckeyes.

I believe it's a good thing that Ohio State is doing(playing the in-state schools), but it would be asking too much and would make little sense to lose or not make as many dollars for both teams as the market would bear.

Dollars are in short supply all around college football and everybody is trying to maximize their potential. Here in West Virginia it took intervention by the dag-gum governor to get WVU and Marshall to reach agreement .... the big issue was the size of Marshall's stadium (35-40 k). Although Marshall wanted home and home, the AD's from both schools understand that doing what is best for both schools is the correct thing to do.

I appreciate what you are saying, Jason, but as you know, there are issues other than the game that must be addressed this day and time.

[billybud]

There is usually little to be gained for a major program to schedule a lesser state program and a lot to be lost.

Why would an FSU schedule a USF, UCF, or Florida Atlantic? Why give exposure to recruiting rivals? Why play a team that will prepare all
preseason to play you as its "bowl game" while your team slides the game in between two tough opponents.

Why play a team, where you rest your starters and develop backups only to be rated down for not winning by enough.

Heck, I am old enough to remember when Florida would play FSU, but only at Florida Field. Then as FSU improved, Florida did not schedule FSU...the legislature was miffed until the State Board of Control (controlled the University system) commanded that the series be scheduled.

[Spence]

The only reason Ohio State schedules the in state schools is to help funnel cash to their programs. They all get their money out of the same pot. By helping the others they help themselves. Ohio State schedules one in state program a year. It will never help Ohio State as much as it helps the other school. There was a time when Ohio State wouldn't schedule in state games at all.

[colorado_loves_football]

Ann Arbor is near Detroit, and it's not like they can't fill stadiums. People come from around the state to watch the football games, in Michigan at least. I live near Flint and have been to a few Maize n' Blue games. The fans can travel.

As for what makes programs like Nebraska, Florida, Notre Dame, etc is the size of the fan base. What makes a fan base larger is success over time. They have built a football tradition at these schools. Not that a school like Pitt hasn't had their moments, they have with Marino and other years, but it isn't as prestigous as the big-time schools.

I think Pittsburgh is an outstanding football program, personally, not just from the '80s.
If they don't sell out there might be a number of reasons why. I was asking if anyone maybe had an answer, due to economics, which I think likely plays a role.
Nebraska has prided itself on having an outstanding football team, year-in, year-out. They fill their stadium, regardless, but I believe if they weren't as competitive as they are, they would have trouble.
I don't think Pitt is an exception. They had a down year last year. I think when they start playing to their potential, they will start filling their stadium. TCU is another example of a football program that when good, fills it's stadium, when they aren't, they don't.
I think that's how it is everywhere. I don't think there are exceptions, but I could be wrong.

[billybud]

It is more difficult in a town with multi sport venues to sell out a college stadium...

Read the Boston College football board in season and half the posts are about the Patriots...BC does not have a rabid SEC style football following. I suspect that some fans who might buy PITT tickets are paying to watch the Steelers.

Cane fans, who sometimes don't fill their stadium, blame having too many other diversions...pro football only being one among them.

[Yeofoot]

If I was in Miami, I'd be an old dirty man watching South Beach all day , never go to a Miami game

[colorado_loves_football]

If I was in Miami, I'd be an old dirty man watching South Beach all day , never go to a Miami game

If you were in Miami, you'd be a Dolphin fan. Anyone hear about Ricky Williams? He's going to be a Toronto Argonaut.
If I was in Miami, I'd be a 'beach bum'. Better dead than red!

[Jason G]

Thanks for the info on what OSU requires from their in-state opponents. I wasn't aware of exactly how all that worked.

I'm not disagreeing at all with Ohio State playing in-state opponents. I like that they do that. In fact OSU has taken it a step farther and has thrown in a couple of out-of-state MAC opponents in recent years as well, with Marshall a few years back and NIU coming in this year. I guess I just don't understand the benefit for Toledo to play in Cleveland over Columbus since they obviously won't play in the Glass Bowl.

In 2007, Ohio State plays Akron. To me that game seems more appropriate for Cleveland than does the Toledo game. That ultimately was the point I was trying to get to.

Spence, do you think OSU would ever consider playing a game at Fawcett Stadium at the Pro Football Hall of Fame? I remember hearing rumors about that being a possibility a few years ago.

I remember how that rumor raised some eyebrows at Akron since the Rubber Bowl has a seating capacity that is about 9,000 more than Fawcett and is the second largest college stadium in the state.

[Spence]

I guess I just don't understand the benefit for Toledo to play in Cleveland over Columbus since they obviously won't play in the Glass Bowl.

Money and exposure. If Toledo played in the Glass Bowl after they gave Ohio State their ticket requirement they would be out numbered in their own stadium. That wouldn't be an ideal situation for them. Plus the amount of money they would have to kick in would cause them to lose money. The point of them playing is to help the in state schools, but Ohio State isn't going to lose money to do it.

Spence, do you think OSU would ever consider playing a game at Fawcett Stadium at the Pro Football Hall of Fame? I remember hearing rumors about that being a possibility a few years ago.

I doubt it. If they play Akron anywhere but the 'Shoe I think it would be in Cleveland. Fawcett Stadium is still kind of small (I believe 25,000) Unless the TV money made up the difference. I just don't believe Ohio State - Akron would generate the TV dollars to make it up. No one outside the state would care.

[Jason G]

I guess I just don't understand the benefit for Toledo to play in Cleveland over Columbus since they obviously won't play in the Glass Bowl.

Money and exposure. If Toledo played in the Glass Bowl after they gave Ohio State their ticket requirement they would be out numbered in their own stadium. That wouldn't be an ideal situation for them. Plus the amount of money they would have to kick in would cause them to lose money. The point of them playing is to help the in state schools, but Ohio State isn't going to lose money to do it.

I agree with you on Cleveland over Toledo, but why Cleveland over just playing it Columbus? More fans can fit into the 'Shoe than in Browns Stadium and the percentage of fans pulling for the Rockets in either locale won't be too different.