Who is most likely to make a run this season....

[Spence]

Montani Semper Liberi

Cool Motto.

[billybud]

The NCAA had no reason to be involved...absolutely none...they have "no authority to intervene in the right of schools to determine their own conference affiliation" (NCAA...Myles Brand) .

It's a matter of contract law. The conferences have a contract that binds members in a confederation. If the conference contract provisions for leaving the BE conference were adhered to, than that is that. Schools are free to seek whatever affiliation best suits them.

People may object to a conference inviting teams from another conference (like BE did CUSA or ACC did BE)...but just how many great football independents are there available to join conferences?

A conference can invite a program and that program may acccept or decline. In the ACC expansion, there was a definite feel of a "winner" vs "loser" in the transaction. I submit that the Big East did not run their business sufficiently well to maintain its members. It is America, and schools are not fettered to a conference that no longer suits them. If a program is unhappy than they can move on...like South Carolina leaving the ACC for the SEC, or Georgia Tech leaving the SEC after 30 years of SEC play.

[ktffan]

The NCAA had no reason to be involved...absolutely none...they have "no authority to intervene in the right of schools to determine their own conference affiliation" (NCAA...Myles Brand) .

Yeah, that's where my thinking was. The original poster killed his credibility by implicating the NCAA in this. Obviously there is only flimsy factual evidence of any of this when such a lame conspiracy it tossed out.


What could the NCAA do about it? Please, refer to rules from the bylaws and not pie in the sky dreams of powers you think the NCAA has. Just what could do and follow their rules?

[Spence]

The whole business was dirty, but in the end it was a matter of survival and the Big East turned around and did to a couple other conferences the same thing that was done to them. To survive. In the end no conference is going to sit still and watch themselves dissolve or become irrelevent.

The Big East makes more sense no from a geographical stand point. Recruiting in the east has to be a little easier for the Big East schools now, and the basketball part of the conference is second to none. Both sides did what they had to do to survive.

Business is business and it is seldom pretty.

I disagree that the NCAA didn't have some authority, though, they could have forced the ACC to back off if they wanted. While no school or conference is bound to any NCAA decision, the NCAA can remove them from NCAA sanctioned events. Which would cost the schools a ton of money. That is where the NCAA clout comes from in the whole school nickname thing. It is just in this case the NCAA must not have objected to what happened enough to do anything about it. They let the ACC raid the Big East and then they let the Big East raid C-USA and the MAC.

[billybud]

Spence...The NCAA has to have authority (in its membership rules)...The organization can't just "sanction" without benefit of rules...lawyers love those kind of actions.

FSU had the NCAA over a barrel on the indian name deal...FSU let bthe NCAA know that they had not followed their own rules and regs regarding the proposed sanction. In any case involving the expression of authority, the body expressing that authority must be able to present that authority existed by rule, and that proper procedures were followed.

Laymen may think that the NCAA had some authority to intervene but those familiar with law would disagree...they could jawbone with the parties, but the NCAA has no authority whatsoever to sanction a team outside of the rules and regulations published by the organization.

[ktffan]

I disagree that the NCAA didn't have some authority, though, they could have forced the ACC to back off if they wanted. While no school or conference is bound to any NCAA decision, the NCAA can remove them from NCAA sanctioned events.

In a pig's eye. Have the NCAA step into the business matters of any of the conferences and watch them howl. They had no authority to do that and if they had presumed the authority they'd have been cut off at the knees.

[Spence]

Rules and regs which admittedly I haven't read, and don't plan to, so I defer.

My point is that while on the surface the whole conference swicthing mess had a dirty feel to it, both parties involved themselves in the same activity and any other conference that felt it would be in their interest to do so would do the same. That is why, I believe most conferences build non sports related alliances. They share research projects and they help advance the cause of each others institutions. They create bonds off the field of play. I think that was the problem with the B-East. They just were involved in very different schools.

[Spence]

You mention the CUSA. There is NOTHING the same there. The Big East, AFTER the raid decimated them, called the CUSA and "informed" them publically they were going to talk to several of their schools. "As a courtesy".....the key word being "courtesy". The Big East did NO backroom deals, or secret meetings in hotel rooms. We were completly open and public. Plus we were FORCED to find members to survive.

I can see the difference, but if I remember correctly it was the former B-East teams that were trying to keep this hush hush. Donna Shalala was the one who was professing her love for the Big East while actively doing a deal with the ACC. Also I believe the governor of Virginia had a hand in this as well.

In the end, though, I think that what was a move to destroy the B-East may have actually helped make them stronger. It will force the remaining members into a "have" position and get them to spend the cash necessary to upgrade their facilities to compete nationally in recruiting. You have to admit that with the exception of WVU, Va Tech, and Miami the rest were treading water when it comes to their football programs.

[billybud]

The Big East is still a crazy smorgasborg of a conference..in for basketball here, out for football there, no baseball here. How do you build identities and conference unity out of...

Villanova
St Johns
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Pittsburgh
UConn
Louisville
Cincinnat
WVU
Rutgers
USF
Marquette
DePaul
Providence
Notre Dame

Some in for baseball and basketball, some for Basketball but not baseball, some for football.

[billybud]

And in a conference, like in a marriage, it's most likely the partner being left behind for a handsomer guy who has the bitter feelings. Yeah...I understand the difference...one's viewpoint is a function of one's vantage point.

[Spence]

My point was building alliances that have nothing to do with sports, but I guess you have to start somewhere. I believe the emphasis in the B-East is on basketball and they are trying to build off of that.

It made prefect sense to me that Miami join the ACC. The one that didn't make sense to me was Va. Tech. I think they just believed that the B-East was finished and decided to jump ship. Va. Tech's natual rivalries would be in the B-East. Not that the move was a bad one for Va. Tech, I just think they would have been better off stating with the Big East.

[Eric]

I think Boston College will be the team getting the shortest end of the stick too. When they could be winning the Big East and getting a couple BCS bids to build an even better program upon, they will be stuck with 7 and 8 win seasons going to the Meineke Car Care Bowl and the MPC Computers Bowl and becoming NC State #2.

[billybud]

I, also have no problem with Cryami going to the ACC. I don't really have a problem with VT, either. They have lusted after the ACC for 30 years.

The team I have a problem with is BC. They don't belong there....they will never be accepted....and they will always be a middle of the pack team, as they were in the BEast. And in my mind....they were, by far the biggest liars and sleaziest of the three. Unfortunately, I think eventually they will came crawling back asking for re-admittance. And the BEast Admin being the weenies they are, will allow it.

I agree...I do not understand BC....FSU and Miami wanted to be together....Shalala wanted a NE presence because (go figure), Miami has a large alumni base in the NE...If you wanted Miami, the price was taking a Syracuse or a BC. Both were in the original plan. Virginia, with state political muscle threatening them, insisted that VT had to come instead. Made some sort of sense...the two schools are rivals, in a existing ACC state.

I do not understand how BC really fits...although, geographically, they aren't really more isolated than Miami...just at the other end of thed seaboard.

[Spence]

And in my mind....they were, by far the biggest liars and sleaziest of the three. Unfortunately, I think eventually they will came crawling back asking for re-admittance. And the BEast Admin being the weenies they are, will allow it.

I agree they will probably be back.

My biggest rub with the way the B-East handles their business is the fact that the allow Notre Dame all the perks of being in a conference without having none of the drawbacks. ND couldn't make it as an independent in basketball so they turn to the B-East for help. The Big East could use the help in football right now and where is Notre Dame? Back in southbend counting the Fiesta Bowl money and waiting on the NBC check. Notre Dame should either go it alone or join, really join, a conference.

[billybud]

And..if you want to talk about not belonging...what is USF doing in the Big East?

They are more isolated from UConn, Rutgers, Cincinnati, et al than BC is from Maryland, VT, Virginia, and the Carolinas.