Who is most likely to make a run this season....
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Spence
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I don't know. I have neve heard of a team declining a bowl invitation to go somewhere else. I know of teams that declined and didn't go at all. Most conferences have criteria in place with certains bowls that determine where this or that team goes and it is based on $$$. Unless the B-East disciplined one of the teams, I wouldn't think they would have a say in picking.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
billybud wrote:It could be as simple as the fact that BC and VT were tied in the standings in the BE (although VT had the head to head)...If the bowl had a tie in for a team placing #4 or #5...it may have been up to the conference to provide the correct order.
Absolutely not. It doesn't work that way.
The bowls bid for the right of selection order. The bowl with the first pick chooses which team they want, (tied with another or not). While there are some limitations on it usually, the bowl gets their choice and can choose a lower place team if they want.
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colorado_loves_football
I said all along it was a 'strategic' move by the ACC.Spence wrote:
What the ACC did to the B-East couldn't have been done if the grass hadn't been greener on the other side. The good thing about what happened is that in the long run this move will probably serve both sides pretty well. It gives a lot of schools in the Big East more opportunity then they had with Miami in the picture. Miami was an absolute force in football. They would have been in any conference. There presence in the B-East had several teams sitting on their hands hoping to get lucky. With them gone, those same teams have new opportunity to expand and grow their football programs. They just need to take advantage of what they have. West Virginia did that last year. Lets see how many of the others will follow.
You guys think it was a coincidence the three teams selected also happened to be the 'cream of the crop' in the Big East? I don't.
There's some truth to what you say, Spence, it will allow more teams opportunity (it already has). But, I dont' think it necessarily was an advantageous move, for all three teams. BC, it would appear, would have been better served staying in the Big East. Those other two schools, I think, fit better geographically in the ACC. What the ACC ought to have done, was invite E. Carolina, over BC. BC, while competitive, likely won't win an ACC title anytime soon.
A Virginia Tech fan's view...
"Shed no tears for the Big East, for Virginia Tech was never accepted there anyway. Everyone asking how the Hokies would be accepted in the ACC -- I'd wager better than they have been in the Big East.
Have people forgotten how shabbily VT has been treated by the Big East? How many insults and barbs they've been hit with by their own conference mates?? And people think the Hokies OWE them something? Perhaps if Tech hadn't been shafted once. Perhaps if Tech hadn't been denied conference sharing for the last few years. Perhaps if Tech hadn't been required to pay an astronomical entrance fee. Those who claim the ACC is all about money need to realize that the Big East is all about money, too. It was, "How much money can we get outta VT?"
They screwed VT over the first time Tech should have been invited. They put the Hokies at a fundamental disadvantage the second time. And now -- now, when Virginia Tech is in a position of power, when THEY need something from TECH, the Hokies are supposed to turn protector of the Big East?
Tech has gone to the Big East for favors in the past, and look how they were treated. They looked to their football comrades to bring them into the conference in 1994, and they were left out in the cold when the four fulltime members broke ranks, turned their backs on a plan to leave for an eight-team all-sports conference unless all four football-only schools were let in, and screwed over VT and Temple. Then, after Tech responded to that slap in the face with three BCS bids in five years, VT went to them again for full admittance into the league. This after a time when they did more than any other school to fill the coffers with football money.
According to past TSL articles, this is how Virginia Tech was thanked: "Sure, but only if you bend over!" The Hokies were told they would pay $2.5 million dollars as an entry fee, spread out over 10 years. And they were told they would not be able to share in basketball revenue for the first five years in the conference. That's $1.3 million a year Virginia Tech doesn't get, or $6.5 million total. A $9 million anchor around VT's neck.
And if you're thinking "Well, at least they finally wanted us," think again. Remember how Les Robinson claimed Mike Tranghese went to the ACC in 1998 to try to get them to take a few Big East football schools? Remember Tranghese's explanation for the meeting? He said he was exploring a merger, a merger of all Big East football schools and all ACC schools for FOOTBALL ONLY under the ACC name, so the Big East could focus on basketball. Read that again. All the Big East football schools, VT included, would play football in a mega-ACC.
But wait a second. At that time, VT was in the Big East for football only, in the Atlantic 10 for the rest of their sports. If that plan, the plan Tranghese admits he was pushing, had gone through ... there is absolutely no way the Hokies would have been invited in the Big East for all sports. Why would they, when VT didn't have football buoying them? Mike Tranghese was pushing a deal that would have left Virginia Tech out in the cold for their other sports, languishing in the Atlantic 10.
Then, in 2000, the 10-1 Hokies, with everyone's superstar Mike Vick at the helm, were in the mix for the Fiesta Bowl. Oregon State went to the PAC 10 commissioner and asked for him to plead their case. He did, loudly and often, and OSU got the Fiesta Bowl bid instead of VT. Where was the Big East commissioner then? What did he do on VT's behalf? Absolutely nothing. A multi-million dollar kick in the groin because VT's commish wouldn't speak out on their behalf as OSU's would, and OSU got a bowl they probably didn't deserve (though they did whip Notre Dame).
When would Tranghese finally speak out about bowls? The next year, when VT was on the receiving end of getting a Gator Bowl bid they probably didn't deserve. Tranghese made sure that didn't happen again. So he is quick to work against VT within its own conference, but not on VT's behalf against other conferences.
And last, a more recent episode that shows how quickly the Big East responds to the requests of others. Pittsburgh and Syracuse complained about their football schedules, explaining how unfair it was that they had Miami and VT at home the same year and asking to split up the two Big East powers. "Sure," said the Big East, "we'll do what we can." They then proceeded to rework the schedules. And what about VT's unbalanced schedule, where they have UVa at home in the same year they have four Big East schools at home, creating an ugly 3/5 split? No dice, no luck, no change. No favors for Virginia Tech.
Some say that the Hokies owe the Big East because it's due to them and only them that Virginia Tech is where they are today. I don't think so. Yes, VT used the Big East to pull themselves up in football, but VT did that. If you think it was all the Big East, where's Rutgers today? Where's Temple? The Hokies started THE SAME AS THEM. Have those other teams built themselves up to where VT is? Nope. THE HOKIES did the work. Yes, they were able to take advantage of their entry into the Big East, but this rise is all Virginia Tech's own perspiration and hard work.
The next favor the Big East does for Virginia Tech will be the first since letting them in the conference in 1990. This is the bunch the Hokies owe their loyalty to? This is the bunch they should abandon their natural home of the ACC for? Sorry, I just don't see it.
There's an old saying: There is no honor among thieves. All I see from the Big East is a lot of time Virginia Tech was on the receiving end of a bunch of thefts. VT owes the Big East nothing."
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"Shed no tears for the Big East, for Virginia Tech was never accepted there anyway. Everyone asking how the Hokies would be accepted in the ACC -- I'd wager better than they have been in the Big East.
Have people forgotten how shabbily VT has been treated by the Big East? How many insults and barbs they've been hit with by their own conference mates?? And people think the Hokies OWE them something? Perhaps if Tech hadn't been shafted once. Perhaps if Tech hadn't been denied conference sharing for the last few years. Perhaps if Tech hadn't been required to pay an astronomical entrance fee. Those who claim the ACC is all about money need to realize that the Big East is all about money, too. It was, "How much money can we get outta VT?"
They screwed VT over the first time Tech should have been invited. They put the Hokies at a fundamental disadvantage the second time. And now -- now, when Virginia Tech is in a position of power, when THEY need something from TECH, the Hokies are supposed to turn protector of the Big East?
Tech has gone to the Big East for favors in the past, and look how they were treated. They looked to their football comrades to bring them into the conference in 1994, and they were left out in the cold when the four fulltime members broke ranks, turned their backs on a plan to leave for an eight-team all-sports conference unless all four football-only schools were let in, and screwed over VT and Temple. Then, after Tech responded to that slap in the face with three BCS bids in five years, VT went to them again for full admittance into the league. This after a time when they did more than any other school to fill the coffers with football money.
According to past TSL articles, this is how Virginia Tech was thanked: "Sure, but only if you bend over!" The Hokies were told they would pay $2.5 million dollars as an entry fee, spread out over 10 years. And they were told they would not be able to share in basketball revenue for the first five years in the conference. That's $1.3 million a year Virginia Tech doesn't get, or $6.5 million total. A $9 million anchor around VT's neck.
And if you're thinking "Well, at least they finally wanted us," think again. Remember how Les Robinson claimed Mike Tranghese went to the ACC in 1998 to try to get them to take a few Big East football schools? Remember Tranghese's explanation for the meeting? He said he was exploring a merger, a merger of all Big East football schools and all ACC schools for FOOTBALL ONLY under the ACC name, so the Big East could focus on basketball. Read that again. All the Big East football schools, VT included, would play football in a mega-ACC.
But wait a second. At that time, VT was in the Big East for football only, in the Atlantic 10 for the rest of their sports. If that plan, the plan Tranghese admits he was pushing, had gone through ... there is absolutely no way the Hokies would have been invited in the Big East for all sports. Why would they, when VT didn't have football buoying them? Mike Tranghese was pushing a deal that would have left Virginia Tech out in the cold for their other sports, languishing in the Atlantic 10.
Then, in 2000, the 10-1 Hokies, with everyone's superstar Mike Vick at the helm, were in the mix for the Fiesta Bowl. Oregon State went to the PAC 10 commissioner and asked for him to plead their case. He did, loudly and often, and OSU got the Fiesta Bowl bid instead of VT. Where was the Big East commissioner then? What did he do on VT's behalf? Absolutely nothing. A multi-million dollar kick in the groin because VT's commish wouldn't speak out on their behalf as OSU's would, and OSU got a bowl they probably didn't deserve (though they did whip Notre Dame).
When would Tranghese finally speak out about bowls? The next year, when VT was on the receiving end of getting a Gator Bowl bid they probably didn't deserve. Tranghese made sure that didn't happen again. So he is quick to work against VT within its own conference, but not on VT's behalf against other conferences.
And last, a more recent episode that shows how quickly the Big East responds to the requests of others. Pittsburgh and Syracuse complained about their football schedules, explaining how unfair it was that they had Miami and VT at home the same year and asking to split up the two Big East powers. "Sure," said the Big East, "we'll do what we can." They then proceeded to rework the schedules. And what about VT's unbalanced schedule, where they have UVa at home in the same year they have four Big East schools at home, creating an ugly 3/5 split? No dice, no luck, no change. No favors for Virginia Tech.
Some say that the Hokies owe the Big East because it's due to them and only them that Virginia Tech is where they are today. I don't think so. Yes, VT used the Big East to pull themselves up in football, but VT did that. If you think it was all the Big East, where's Rutgers today? Where's Temple? The Hokies started THE SAME AS THEM. Have those other teams built themselves up to where VT is? Nope. THE HOKIES did the work. Yes, they were able to take advantage of their entry into the Big East, but this rise is all Virginia Tech's own perspiration and hard work.
The next favor the Big East does for Virginia Tech will be the first since letting them in the conference in 1990. This is the bunch the Hokies owe their loyalty to? This is the bunch they should abandon their natural home of the ACC for? Sorry, I just don't see it.
There's an old saying: There is no honor among thieves. All I see from the Big East is a lot of time Virginia Tech was on the receiving end of a bunch of thefts. VT owes the Big East nothing."
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This was posted in 1999...well before ACC expansion...
Comments from the VT Athletic Director Weaver...
"In addition to that comment, Weaver also acknowledged the fact that he talks often with the heads of the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 conferences. You can interpret his comments, if you are so inclined, to mean that Tech is currently a free agent of sorts in this ever-changing landscape, and would like to stay that way a little longer.
As you can imagine, Weaver's cherry-picking comment set off Big East fans and even a newspaper columnist or two. The fans of other Big East schools who have stopped by the message board to comment are spitting a little venom Tech's way. Of course they are, because number one, they're scared, and number two, they have no idea what it's like to be Virginia Tech.
Hey, folks, we've been kicked around for about 30 years now. We've been ignored, laughed at, sneered at, and even stabbed in the back. Forgive us if we don't lick the Big East's hand at the first opportunity."
THE ABOVE WAS POSTED IN HOKIECENTRAl in 1999
Comments from the VT Athletic Director Weaver...
"If I'm an AD in the ACC, I'm fighting to go to 12. Because right now they have the chance to cherry-pick the best teams they want. Say, go with Syracuse, Miami and Virginia Tech. Now you've got more of the top-25 programs of the last six, eight, 10 years than any conference in America. Plus, you've taken control of one-third of the television sets in America [Big East TV market span]."
"In addition to that comment, Weaver also acknowledged the fact that he talks often with the heads of the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 conferences. You can interpret his comments, if you are so inclined, to mean that Tech is currently a free agent of sorts in this ever-changing landscape, and would like to stay that way a little longer.
As you can imagine, Weaver's cherry-picking comment set off Big East fans and even a newspaper columnist or two. The fans of other Big East schools who have stopped by the message board to comment are spitting a little venom Tech's way. Of course they are, because number one, they're scared, and number two, they have no idea what it's like to be Virginia Tech.
Hey, folks, we've been kicked around for about 30 years now. We've been ignored, laughed at, sneered at, and even stabbed in the back. Forgive us if we don't lick the Big East's hand at the first opportunity."
THE ABOVE WAS POSTED IN HOKIECENTRAl in 1999
billybud wrote:This was posted in 1999...well before ACC expansion...
Comments from the VT Athletic Director Weaver..."If I'm an AD in the ACC, I'm fighting to go to 12. Because right now they have the chance to cherry-pick the best teams they want. Say, go with Syracuse, Miami and Virginia Tech. Now you've got more of the top-25 programs of the last six, eight, 10 years than any conference in America. Plus, you've taken control of one-third of the television sets in America [Big East TV market span]."
"In addition to that comment, Weaver also acknowledged the fact that he talks often with the heads of the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 conferences. You can interpret his comments, if you are so inclined, to mean that Tech is currently a free agent of sorts in this ever-changing landscape, and would like to stay that way a little longer.
As you can imagine, Weaver's cherry-picking comment set off Big East fans and even a newspaper columnist or two. The fans of other Big East schools who have stopped by the message board to comment are spitting a little venom Tech's way. Of course they are, because number one, they're scared, and number two, they have no idea what it's like to be Virginia Tech.
Hey, folks, we've been kicked around for about 30 years now. We've been ignored, laughed at, sneered at, and even stabbed in the back. Forgive us if we don't lick the Big East's hand at the first opportunity."
THE ABOVE WAS POSTED IN HOKIECENTRAl in 1999
Of course, the ACC didn't want them either.
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colorado_loves_football
Pure speculation, in my opinion, as to the rationale, behind it.billybud wrote:Actually...The ACC wanted Miami and whoever Miami had to have to feel "comfortable" in the ACC. That's it.
Neverthless, I think the ACC wanted whoever would make them 'better' while also hurting the Big East. I doubt it was an 'amicable' separation.
There are obvious reasons why Miami might consider a move to the ACC.
B.C. and Miami do enjoy a 'healthy' rivalry. VT, it would appear to me, came along for the ride. They likely would have been better served in the Big East, as evidenced by last year's performance. Too bad for them.
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Spence
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Neverthless, I think the ACC wanted whoever would make them 'better' while also hurting the Big East. I doubt it was an 'amicable' separation.
Of course it wasn't amicable, the B-East went to court to try and stop it. The ACC was looking out for #1, but all the conferences do that.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
Well...I didn't listen in on the conference calls...but I was privy to some of the briefings that Dave Hart (FSU AD) gave (I was on contract at FSU...now retired).
FSU was adamant about the need to strengthen the conference. Lots of folks got vilified..VT, Miami, BC....but FSU was much of the catalyst. There was a power struggle in the ACC going on between the basketball oriented North Carolina Tobacco Road crowd who believed that the ACC was totally theirs and FSU and Clemson who were more football oriented.
Miami and FSU had been talking for over a decade about being in the same conference. Bowden was content as things were (and why not?) but the AD wanted the future secured.
FSU was adamant about the need to strengthen the conference. Lots of folks got vilified..VT, Miami, BC....but FSU was much of the catalyst. There was a power struggle in the ACC going on between the basketball oriented North Carolina Tobacco Road crowd who believed that the ACC was totally theirs and FSU and Clemson who were more football oriented.
Miami and FSU had been talking for over a decade about being in the same conference. Bowden was content as things were (and why not?) but the AD wanted the future secured.
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