I know how to solve all the BCS mid-major inclusion problems

[billybud]

LOL...

Even Duke lays claim:

Duke beat
Clemson who beat
Miami FL who beat
Louisville


Duke beat
Clemson who beat
Wake Forest who beat
Boston College who beat
Notre Dame

Duke beat
Clemson who beat
Miami FL who beat
Louisville who beat
TCU who beat
Northwestern who beat
Ohio State

[Spence]

1...2005...Tulane was better than Ohio State...

Tulane beat
SMU who beat
TCU who beat
Oklahoma who beat
Nebraska who beat
Michigan who beat
Penn State who beat
Ohio State

Darn and I thought we were better then Tulane. Back to the drawing board.

[colorado_loves_football]

LOL...Really , transitive wins don't really work...anyone can make it what they want...they are actually fun...go undefeated and you are on no one's chain.

1...2005...Tulane was better than Ohio State...

Tulane beat
SMU who beat
TCU who beat
Oklahoma who beat
Nebraska who beat
Michigan who beat
Penn State who beat
Ohio State

2...Colorado Mines was better than Penn State

Colorado Mines beat
Chadron St who beat
Mesa St who beat
Western New Mexico who beat
St Paul's who beat
Shaw who beat
Bowie St who beat
Morgan St who beat
Howard who beat
Charleston Southern who beat
Coastal Carolina who beat
James Madison who beat
William & Mary who beat
New Hampshire who beat
UC-Davis who beat
Stanford who beat
Arizona St who beat
Northwestern who beat
Wisconsin who beat
Michigan who beat
Penn State

3. West Viriginia was behind:

Florida.....

Florida beat
Florida St who beat
Virginia Tech who beat

Georgia Tech

Georgia Tech beat
Miami FL who beat
Virginia Tech who beat
West Virginia

and Henderson State

Henderson St beat
Harding who beat
Valdosta St who beat
Central Arkansas who beat
Presbyterian who beat
Charleston Southern who beat
Coastal Carolina who beat
James Madison who beat
William & Mary who beat
New Hampshire who beat
UC-Davis who beat
Stanford who beat
Navy who beat
Colorado St who beat
Utah who beat
Georgia Tech who beat
Miami FL who beat
Virginia Tech who beat
West Virginia

West Virginia

18 degrees of separation in two of your 'so-called' comparsions between teams. That's what I call reliable data.

Anyway, some of the teams you include are in fact outstanding II schools.
Valdosta St was division II champion, 2004, so Harding must have a pretty good team to beat them! Most of those other schools I'm not familiar with, I can't make any kind of remark, for or against those schools, specifically without doing more research.

But, if your point is that Division II schools necessarily 'suck' I think you are mistaken. Anyway, you lose credibility with each degree of separation. Colorado Mines has an outstanding football team, division II.
Whehter or not you agree I think is irrelevant to anything we are discussing here.

[colorado_loves_football]

This is nothing compared to the Colorado Mines/Penn State comparison!

Actually, you are all again proving you aren't as intelligent as you might think if you are putting Colorado Mines down.

Their QB, 2004 was the Harlon Hill (sp?) award winner. That's given to the best player in I-AA, the equivalent of the Heisman Trophy.

Colorado Mines was 12-0 that year, before being upended by Pittsburgh St (Ks), in playoff game 70-35. Pittsburgh St, then went on to play for the national championship but lost to Vladosta St. (Ga). That's Division II football, but they have some outstanding football teams.

It almost ties into what I was saying earlier, with respect to Adams State (a NAIA school that later went II). They were competitive with Colorado Mines, 2004, nearly beating them to 'win' a spot in in the playoffs, losing 28-24 here.

For the record I never made those comparisions. But on any given day, who knows? Maybe Colorado Mines beats Penn St.

Cincinnati (OH) at 3-8 (0-6) C-USA beat Wisconsin head-to-head.

That's not a 3 degree (or more) separation. That's one-to-one.

[Derek]

Here's my favorite....Or NOT

West Virgina gets beat by VT
VT gets beat by Miami
Miami gets STOMPED by LSU
LSU get STOMPED by GA

And then GA loses to WV????

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World.....

[colorado_loves_football]

Haha , those are some great ones! My example is from 2004:

New Hampshire beat Rutgers
Rutgers beat Michigan State
Michigan State beat Minnesota
Minnesota beat Alabama
Alabama beat Southern Miss
Southern Miss was "competitive" with California

My conclusion?: New Hampshire could be "competitive" with California! I never thought of it that way .......


This is nothing compared to the Colorado Mines/Penn State comparison!

.

Here's another good one (to consider).

1999.


Stanford (Pac-Ten Champions). Opening game (for them, anyway) losers to Texas 69-17 (in Austin, TX).

TCU was a WAC team that year, finishing as co-champions, along with Hawaii, Fresno St.

Who else did Stanford schedule? San Jose St.

They lost, by the way, at home, no less, 39-38.

TCU played San Jose St, immediately following that game, beating them by a 'sizable' 42-0 margin.

Another team TCU scheduled that year was Rice, losing to them by a 'sizable' margin, I suppose 42-21.

Rice also played Texas, in Austin, TX. Strange thing was, they only lost by 5 points 18-13. Lest you think Texas was some kind of 'powerhouse' they weren't a BCS recipient, after losing to Nebraska, 22-6 in the Big XII championship, and lost to Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl 27-6.

But they were still Big XII S. Champions, and in fact beat Nebraska earlier in the year.

So, is it possible (God forbid) that dispite TCU losing to an atrocious Northwestern team (in Evanston, IL), and Arizona (in Tempe) that they were still likely a very good football team?

Dare I even suggest it, given how bad Northwestern was?

Well, I think I can, since Stanford and Wisconsin likely both sucked.

[ktffan]

For the record I never made those comparisions. But on any given day, who knows? Maybe Colorado Mines beats Penn St.

Look, I thought about standing up for Colorado Mines a bit, but this is all in fun. However, Colorado Mines would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever beat Penn State.

[billybud]

Sorry...my laptop was down for a while...I spewed coffee all over the screen...

Oh gawd...my eyes are still tearing up.....CLF your calling is really in stand-up...your earnest straight faced monologue would get howls...

[colorado_loves_football]

Sorry...my laptop was down for a while...I spewed coffee all over the screen...

Oh gawd...my eyes are still tearing up.....CLF your calling is really in stand-up...your earnest straight faced monologue would get howls...

I'm still trying to 'translate' the information you posted, truth be told, maybe it's all in 'good fun'.

I think the reality is you're likely 'scared' of the fact there is a team out there, minimally, who can likely play (and beat) your favorite team.

I never brought Colorado Mines into this debate, I don't think I ever would, either, but the fact remains they have a good football team.

They are also Division II. At least I stayed within I-A in my comparisons.

Other 'flaws' in your supposedly 'objective' analysis, is that your data becomes less reliable for each degree of separation. You don't have to be a mathematician to understand that, or in other words, comparting Henderson St to whoever you did (Penn St), loses credibility for each degree of separation. I didn't count, but it looked like a long list to me.

Show me ANYWHERE I even remotely came close to doing that!

For the record Colorado Mines used to play the University of Colorado, regularly. I think Mines even beat them, first time around, but I'm not a historian, I would have to research it.

Antother item of note, Colorado Mines, as good as they are, likely weren't as good as in 2004. That year they were 12-0, regular season.
They were in the playoffs for something like the first time as an RMAC school. They were beat, soundly, by Pittsburgh St, but that team was favored to win the national championship. They lost, to Valdosta St in the title game.

Division II schools aren't 'bad' schools. Some you referred to, Chadron St, is an outstanding Division II school. They play in same confernece as Colorado Mines. Laugh all you want, I think your comparison is what's funny, myself. On any given day, anything can happen. Chad Friehauf nearly made Denver Broncos, but for the fact they only kept two QBs, he likely does. He was Harlon Hill trophy winner, 2004.

[ktffan]

For the record Colorado Mines used to play the University of Colorado, regularly. I think Mines even beat them, first time around, but I'm not a historian, I would have to research it.

Please help me out here so I can stop laughing. You aren't saying that because Colorado Mines beat Colorado 100 years ago, they can beat Penn State today? Please help me out here because I'm dying and if you say "yes", please call the ambulance.

[ktffan]

Division II schools aren't 'bad' schools. Some you referred to, Chadron St, is an outstanding Division II school. They play in same confernece as Colorado Mines. Laugh all you want, I think your comparison is what's funny, myself. On any given day, anything can happen. Chad Friehauf nearly made Denver Broncos, but for the fact they only kept two QBs, he likely does. He was Harlon Hill trophy winner, 2004.

How is it possible for one human to be so ignorant?

[Eric]

You, fairly obviously, don't seem to be as intelligent as you say you are either. Holy crap, you know Colorado Mines is a D2 school? You're telling me that Colorado Mines could, on any given day, beat Penn State, yet you're telling me I'm not as smart as I think I am? You're ridiculous.

[colorado_loves_football]

You, fairly obviously, don't seem to be as intelligent as you say you are either. Holy crap, you know Colorado Mines is a D2 school? You're telling me that Colorado Mines could, on any given day, beat Penn State, yet you're telling me I'm not as smart as I think I am? You're ridiculous.

Was I being serious? no.

Billy Bud was suggesting that head-to-head games aren't a 'true' way to gauge a teams relative strength. I think they are. He found some kind of 'link' between Colorado Mines and Penn St, that supposedly 'proved' Colorado Mines was 'better' than Penn St. Take it up with him, if you have a problem with it.

It's the old Kevin Bacon thing, applied to college football, but we aren't talking 5 degrees of separation here, 18. He did it, because he doesn't like how I argue my position.

[colorado_loves_football]

You, fairly obviously, don't seem to be as intelligent as you say you are either. Holy crap, you know Colorado Mines is a D2 school? You're telling me that Colorado Mines could, on any given day, beat Penn State, yet you're telling me I'm not as smart as I think I am? You're ridiculous.

No, I don't necessarily think Colorado Mines is anywhere close to being competitive with Penn St (or any other I-A team).

But, he found some kind of 'link' that connected the two together.

I think head-to-head is a reliable way to gauge a team's strength against another within reason. I've never come close to applying something even remotely to that extent (18 degrees of separation). I think maybe I've applied a 3 degree of separation.

He doesn't understand that with each degree of separation, the information becomes less reliable. So he found 'conclusive' evidence that Colorado Mines was 'better' than Penn St. I would never make that comparison, unless it was warranted. Colorado Mines used to play the University of Colorado, in fact I think they beat them, first time they played each other.

[billybud]

Great...and Princeton has won more national championships than Miami, FSU, and Florida put together.....yawn.

LOL....you now espouse that I think that Colorado Mines is better than Penn State...after I laughed about how I could make anybody good using transitive wins...it's a joke, son.