I just read the crazy story.
Here is a link:
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/6149138?FSO1&ATT=HMA
Miami player shot and killed after practice
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Dossenator
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Miami player shot and killed after practice
"A team with something to play for is dangerous, but a team with someone to play for is unstoppable..." Arkansas OL Brey Cook quote following the death of teammate Garrett Uekman (Nov. 2011).
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Spence
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It is very sad to see someone so young with their whole life in front of them get killed. Unless people learn to respect others lives this will be a very sad world. I hope they catch the shooters and they get puinished to the fullest extent of the law.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
HeismanHog wrote:Spence wrote:It is very sad to see someone so young with their whole life in front of them get killed. Unless people learn to respect others lives this will be a very sad world. I hope they catch the shooters and they get puinished to the fullest extent of the law.
From all reports he was the rarest of Hurricanes: A good kid doing well in school and actually a positive to society. What a shame.
Very sad
Last edited by donovan on Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Statistics are the Morphine of College Football
I am not of the opinion that we should make wide sweeping comments about individuals becasue I do not know them personally.
But I do think it is time that Miami took hold of that program. Shalala need to get hold of that program. Maybe this time she will take a look at the tapes!
This is sad and tragic and maybe it has nothing to do with the program...but after the melee all things are back to normal...well Miami they are not.
If she would step up to her responsibility, which she did the opposite as the Surgeon Generaless....another diatribe another time.....she would take quick and decisive action. Possibilities are numerous.....Coach...No post season play....pull scholarships.....People have cleaned up programs and fairly quickly.....UW is just one example....their W L record will suffer for several more years...but much of the junk...mostly caused by the Tyee Booster Alumin Club....has gone been put to rest.....Just took a School President..new...that hired a new athletic director that had some core values.
They were not left over from a defunct presidential reign...
But I do think it is time that Miami took hold of that program. Shalala need to get hold of that program. Maybe this time she will take a look at the tapes!
This is sad and tragic and maybe it has nothing to do with the program...but after the melee all things are back to normal...well Miami they are not.
If she would step up to her responsibility, which she did the opposite as the Surgeon Generaless....another diatribe another time.....she would take quick and decisive action. Possibilities are numerous.....Coach...No post season play....pull scholarships.....People have cleaned up programs and fairly quickly.....UW is just one example....their W L record will suffer for several more years...but much of the junk...mostly caused by the Tyee Booster Alumin Club....has gone been put to rest.....Just took a School President..new...that hired a new athletic director that had some core values.
They were not left over from a defunct presidential reign...
Statistics are the Morphine of College Football
From all reports he was the rarest of Hurricanes: A good kid doing well in school and actually a positive to society. What a shame.
I love these "labeling" slams. Nice way to introduce a slam into a sympathy thread.
And it's not even accurate. Miami has had fewer arrests than most schools (and certainly fewer arrests than the average SEC school) the last six years and graduates a good percentage of its players. A knee jerk and, inappropriate,. reaction.
I am no Miami fan but the poster's statement is just wrong... and, regarding "doing well in school", Miami's players graduate at much higher levels than Arkansas. (Arkansas GSR of 47%...Miami's GSR is 67%)
Miami's NCAA graduation rate is far above that of awful Alabama (39%)and is double digit percentage points above Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU....Miami also graduates better than Ohio State and is 1 percent lower than Michigan.
..Miami kids come from dangerous neighborhoods...it's not the kid's nor the program's fault that this kid was shot..it is a function of the environment which these kids must traverse to live, to see their family.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
I just call hypocrisy when I see it...the SEC, as whole, has athletes that do much poorer as students than Miami...(and you submitted a very bogus "graduation requirement" excuse for the SEC). You call out the whole Miami program as not doing well as students...and that's a bogus call...call out Alabama, if you must call out someone, for being in the bottom 5 of college football in grad rates.
Sure Miami has had a few on field fights...but their players didn't get caught with ten pounds of drugs and a weapon (that was Arkansas). They haven't had a dozen arrested in the last 18 months (that was Tennessee)...
Paint Miami black....but it hasn't been their players who have been arrested...it's been Tennessee, Florida, North Carolina, Arkansas State, etc.
And...Miami has NOT had more kids arrested, in the last six years, than other major programs...that is just another bogus statement. Call out Ohio State, who has had three times as many kids arrested in the last four years, or Tennessee who has had three times as many as Miami.
Sure Miami has had a few on field fights...but their players didn't get caught with ten pounds of drugs and a weapon (that was Arkansas). They haven't had a dozen arrested in the last 18 months (that was Tennessee)...
Paint Miami black....but it hasn't been their players who have been arrested...it's been Tennessee, Florida, North Carolina, Arkansas State, etc.
And...Miami has NOT had more kids arrested, in the last six years, than other major programs...that is just another bogus statement. Call out Ohio State, who has had three times as many kids arrested in the last four years, or Tennessee who has had three times as many as Miami.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
And, by the by...Miami is a private school with tougher graduation requirements than Florida....
And since you seem to be fairly uninformed...Miami is currently academically ranked above Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, South Carolina, Nebraska, Rutgers, Ohio State, Minnesota, UConn, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan State, Texas A&M, Colorado, Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma...I would list Arkansas, but you really have to scroll way down the list (past #124) to find it.
Sooo...Miami is ranked academically higher than almost the whole SEC, Big 12, Big 10....just thought you should know.
And since you seem to be fairly uninformed...Miami is currently academically ranked above Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, South Carolina, Nebraska, Rutgers, Ohio State, Minnesota, UConn, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan State, Texas A&M, Colorado, Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma...I would list Arkansas, but you really have to scroll way down the list (past #124) to find it.
Sooo...Miami is ranked academically higher than almost the whole SEC, Big 12, Big 10....just thought you should know.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
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Dossenator
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Billybud...you are referring to Jermaine Brooks from Arkansas. He was immediately kicked off the team. Arkansas does not have situations like that very often.
Also, GRADUATION PERCENTAGE is a BOGUS, BOGUS, Statistic. You failed to mention that every division I school in America only graduates about 58% of every freshman that enters school (that is athletes and non-athletes). So only about half of any student that enters college is going to graduate with a degree. I guess the math department, and the music department, and the science department, and the business school needs to stop letting all the trouble making kids from the inner cities into their programs. As for Arkansas' football program graduation rate...it is 51% (if you take the entire student body at Arkansas the graduation rate is 46%...that again is non-athletes and athletes). And don't anyone give me the argument that they should be held at a higher standard because they have scholarships....so do many in other departments....in fact more scholarship money goes to non-athletes then it does to athletes. I had several friends from high school that made 3.8 to 4.0 grade point averages and scored extremely high on the ACT or SAT. They received full rides to college and then flunked out by the end of there freshman year. Why are we not getting on to the Science teachers, math teachers, etc. Because we say....well if those students would have wanted to succeed and graduate they would have applied themeselves and done the work. Why should athletes be treated any differently. If they don't do the work they don't graduate. Why should a coach be held accountable for that. If they are then every professor, teacher, etc. should be held accountable.
I think all college football teams have players who are bad apples. It is a typical slice of the average population. You can randomly take 100 people from any community in America and there will be a small percentage that will not meet the highest of social standards (some will be down right criminals). It is competely unfair to think that a football team would be any different. However, some schools seem to look for or attract that small percentage that do not follow the rules.
I don't buy into this...well they get kids from rough areas. It is the same argument in schools that says "poor kids can not succeed". Just because you live in a certain situation does not mean you have to follow what someone else is doing. Everyone can make their own decisions in life. Sorry for the rant....I am just tired of our society always having excusses for everyone and everything.
Also, GRADUATION PERCENTAGE is a BOGUS, BOGUS, Statistic. You failed to mention that every division I school in America only graduates about 58% of every freshman that enters school (that is athletes and non-athletes). So only about half of any student that enters college is going to graduate with a degree. I guess the math department, and the music department, and the science department, and the business school needs to stop letting all the trouble making kids from the inner cities into their programs. As for Arkansas' football program graduation rate...it is 51% (if you take the entire student body at Arkansas the graduation rate is 46%...that again is non-athletes and athletes). And don't anyone give me the argument that they should be held at a higher standard because they have scholarships....so do many in other departments....in fact more scholarship money goes to non-athletes then it does to athletes. I had several friends from high school that made 3.8 to 4.0 grade point averages and scored extremely high on the ACT or SAT. They received full rides to college and then flunked out by the end of there freshman year. Why are we not getting on to the Science teachers, math teachers, etc. Because we say....well if those students would have wanted to succeed and graduate they would have applied themeselves and done the work. Why should athletes be treated any differently. If they don't do the work they don't graduate. Why should a coach be held accountable for that. If they are then every professor, teacher, etc. should be held accountable.
I think all college football teams have players who are bad apples. It is a typical slice of the average population. You can randomly take 100 people from any community in America and there will be a small percentage that will not meet the highest of social standards (some will be down right criminals). It is competely unfair to think that a football team would be any different. However, some schools seem to look for or attract that small percentage that do not follow the rules.
I don't buy into this...well they get kids from rough areas. It is the same argument in schools that says "poor kids can not succeed". Just because you live in a certain situation does not mean you have to follow what someone else is doing. Everyone can make their own decisions in life. Sorry for the rant....I am just tired of our society always having excusses for everyone and everything.
"A team with something to play for is dangerous, but a team with someone to play for is unstoppable..." Arkansas OL Brey Cook quote following the death of teammate Garrett Uekman (Nov. 2011).
It is real simple...
1...statement that Miami players don't do well in school..
FALSE....Miami graduates more than almost any SEC school and above the national average.
2...statement that Miami players have been in trouble more than other schools..
FALSE...it just is not true and is not supported by data...
2...statement that the SEC has tougher graduation requirements than do "small conferences like the Big East".
FALSE...don't try to crap an ex educational researcher...
1...statement that Miami players don't do well in school..
FALSE....Miami graduates more than almost any SEC school and above the national average.
2...statement that Miami players have been in trouble more than other schools..
FALSE...it just is not true and is not supported by data...
2...statement that the SEC has tougher graduation requirements than do "small conferences like the Big East".
FALSE...don't try to crap an ex educational researcher...
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
I don't buy into this...well they get kids from rough areas. It is the same argument in schools that says "poor kids can not succeed". Just because you live in a certain situation does not mean you have to follow what someone else is doing. Everyone can make their own decisions in life. Sorry for the rant....I am just tired of our society always having excusses for everyone and everything.
You seem to have not understood my post. I made no excuses for the kids, I don't have to...I only explained that they lived in a dangerous environment where bad guys with guns shoot people....
I don't blame the soldier for getting shot in Bagdad...they live and work in a dangerous environment where bad guys shoot people. Miami may not be quite as dangerous as Bagdad but it may be closer than some may think. Miami's violent crime rate is the highest in the nation.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
where do you get off calling me uniformed?
LOL...by refuting all of your uninformed statements.
Your only statement of merit is your fall back on public perception. "If you ask people", etc, etc.. I'll grant you that. Miami suffers in public perception. It is the postings like yours that contribute to this labeling.
I only point out the difference between reality and perception...the fact that it is Tennessee and Ohio State athletes who have had a bunch of arrests, not Miami, that it is Miami whose players are graduating, not the SEC schools, that you don't have to know anything to have an uninformed opinion. And that some folks repeat only what they think they have heard which creates a vicious cycle since other folks repeat the swill and thus validate it.
It's a common enough phenomenom...West Virginian's are inbred hillbillies, Catholics can't think for themselves and only take orders from the pope, we have witches in salem, the earth is flat.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
but Miami has a higher occurence of these "incidents" than any other program you've mentioned.
What incidents? What data do you have to back this up?
As far as kids being in trouble and arrested...you are flat wrong.
You pulled B.S. out of the air...give me any facts to back this up since the turn of the century...2000-2006. It is just not true. Just because you "think it" doesn't make it become a fact.
Miami is suffering from a reputation that it gained 15 years ago...but that's not factually relevant (in terms of arrests) to the last six years and today's team.
I can document incidents at other schools....but you say..."Oh it's everywhere"...but it isn't at Miami as much as most major programs in the last 6 years. Prove me wrong.
Now, you want incidents...how about Florida's players who shot an assault rifle through the walls of a neighbor's apartment this year? Or Florida linebacker Channing Crowder arrested for fighting with police, or Florida's Marcus Thomas failing his drug tests again...etc., etc.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”
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