Hmmmm, Worth Reading .....

[Spence]

Money does talk, but if congress is after a money grab there is very little that lobbying can do. They only chance to defeat something like that is for the people to guarantee that anyone who votes for it doesn't get any votes. Politicians will listen to that over everything. No politician will go down with a sinking ship. They aren't made that way.

[donovan]

From first hand knowledge I suspect that most universities do not receive money for athletics but the programs are self funding. Like Ohio State,I know this to be true for the University of Washington, Washington State and Bosie State. Their football programs,(Basketball is self funding) pay for the entire athletic program of the school as well as money into General Revenue of the school, oft times for special projects.

Did the Boise State Athletic Department fund the construction of their athletic facilities, such as their stadium, or was the state involved?

They funded it without state funds. There was considerable private donations..Albertsons and Simplot...but that and the program funded all their athletic facilities. They also have a great Basketball facility which is why the Regional NCAA is always played there.

[mountainman]

Here's a follow-up concerning this topic:

http://msn.foxsports.com/wcbk/story/6175146

[..fanatic]

This is one of the myths of a tax-exempt or non profit business. It is absolutely not ta fact they do business to just "cover costs to break even." It only means they do not distribute the profits to stockholders private individuals. Some of the most profitable companies in this country or non-profit.

No, it's not "absolutely not a fact".

I've worked directly for a 501 (C)(3) for 18 years - a performing arts center that operates as a direct support organization of a college. It operates through funding and grants. If it makes money, the funding and grants are reduced so that the profits, minus the funding basically equal the funding. In other words, it's a zero-sum game. Either it operates on the tax dollars, or it operates on self-generating revenue.

Making money only reduces the stress of "begging" for grants and "arts funding" dollars. That money has to be reinvested in the center to maintain tax-exempt status. Staffing is bare-boned and payroll is regulated as part of the over-all allowable expenditures in accordance with the 501 (c)(3) charter.

In the realm of an athletic program at a university, funds for facility improvements such as stadiums, weight rooms, etc., are raised through charitable foundations that are 501 (c)(3)'s, thereby allowing contributors to give larger amounts (sometimes up to 30% of their gross income), as tax-deductible donations which, in turn, encourages more donations.

But I digress. The point of my original post was that most athletic programs do not make money - therefore there are no profits to tax. They are usually spending more than they make just to keep facilities up to par and keep their various programs in operation. If profits were to be taxed, they would only be giving the money back in the form of grants. Further, if there actually were profits that exceeded the threshhold of their charter as a 501 (c)(3), they would lose tax-exempt status and be taxed, and possibly fined, accordingly.

Virginia Tech's recent stadium expansions and other facility improvements were self-funded in the manner that they raised the money through specific fund-raising initiatives, seeking corporate and private donations. I believe the money they "make" from athletics, if any, is apportioned to the non-revenue sports for improvements and operations. In the last several years, Virginia Tech has upgraded all of its athletic facilities - from the golf course to the Tennis complex - to a new softball stadium and a new soccer stadium.

[donovan]

non-profit organization
Definition

An incorporated organization which exists for educational or charitable reasons, and from which its shareholders or trustees do not benefit financially. also called not-for-profit organization.

All I am saying. Is it complex...absolutely...just read your (..fanatic) explanation.

There are many athletic departments that "make money" and reinvest it in other school programs....that is how they fit the definition. That list is big. There are others that do not......

What government does with its regulations is to complicate the simple. They are looking for more money to redistribute. NCAA funds...talk about a non-profit organization that makes vast amounts of money...are as good as any target source they can find. There certainly is a philosophical basis for discussion of the NCAA...and that is the approach Congress will try and take to snake money from them.

I agree the NCAA should be concerned...mainly because I am not convinced their skirts are all that clean...but that again is another issue.

In my opinion this matter gets resolved when College Presidents take control of their programs and take back some of the sovereignty they have given up..(this applies to way too many areas of our life..but as always..I digress)

[Spence]

Ohio State is one of the biggest,most profitable athletic programs in the country. They have one of the biggest alumni organizations in the country, and one of the biggest booster programs in the country. The president and the regents absolutely control the athletic director who, in fact, runs the entire athletic program. Ohio State funds 36 sports both male and female, they have state of the art facilities, and they are fully self funded. Running in the black, to the point that you have to turn money back to the university, isn't a bad thing. It is a model that all athletic programs should follow.

In addition to that, the coaches and athletes lend their names and faces to charitable organizations such as the Juvenile Diabetes foundation. The players spend countless hours of their time working with kids and the community. Ohio State calls this paying forward. It was started by Woody Hayes and it is proudly supported by the athletes. Athletes who give their time and effort to support their commmunity. They do not get paid to start with, they are under no order to do what they do.

If this is the kind of non profit that the government wants to tax, then I think they have their priorities way out of wack.

Ohio State is the program I am familiar with, but most athletic programs do the same sort of thing.

[..fanatic]

NCAA funds...talk about a non-profit organization that makes vast amounts of money...are as good as any target source they can find. There certainly is a philosophical basis for discussion of the NCAA...and that is the approach Congress will try and take to snake money from them.

Does the NCAA make money? I don't know. I've never seen a balance sheet.

[donovan]

NCAA funds...talk about a non-profit organization that makes vast amounts of money...are as good as any target source they can find. There certainly is a philosophical basis for discussion of the NCAA...and that is the approach Congress will try and take to snake money from them.

Does the NCAA make money? I don't know. I've never seen a balance sheet.

Not to prolong this issue, this link shows the NCAA budget...their website has all kinds of stuff. Indeed this is not a balance sheet but does show fund distribution. In order to distribute funds to schools, they have to have revenue in excess of their expenses. That is the point...it is not whether or not there are profits, but how they are distributed.

I will channel Friedrich Von Hayek for more information on the economic philosphy of this in regards to the NCAA.

And lastly, this does not make it right or wrong...it just is a lot of money that Government could intercept that would take away from the good that these distributions do in areas non related to the sport that generates the money.
http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/2004-05_budget.pdf

[billybud]

It could become a very slippery slope...tax the NCAA, a member support organization...and then what could be next? The Police Benevolent Associations, National Education Association, Catholic Charities, Hadassah...

I would expect a "Paul Revere" effect (the taxman is coming) among powerful 501's to rally to the NCAA's side.

[Spence]

It could become a very slippery slope...tax the NCAA, a member support organization...and then what could be next? The Police Benevolent Associations, National Education Association, Catholic Charities, Hadassah...

I would expect a "Paul Revere" effect (the taxman is coming) among powerful 501's to rally to the NCAA's side.

Exactly. And your right they won't take it lying down. Don't forget the American Red Cross. That is one of the largest non profits and they handle lots and lots of money.