The Culture War&Football..don't read if musing irritates

[billybud]

I think that "winning" drives the game and the decisions surrounding the game...that's why Arkansas' leading tackler isn't missing a game after being arrested for interfering with a police officer and being disorderly...it's why the Ohio State LB was only suspended a game for choking out the Wisconsin QB..it's why Nebraska didn't throw off it's player for sucker punching the Mizou fan, breaking his nose. It's why LSU didn't penalize the two players who swung helmets at Miami guys and knocked them unconcious.

I am interested in Miami's new "zero tolerance" policy...the warning has been given...fight and you are gone...let's see how it goes.

[donovan]

[Spence]

I think that "winning" drives the game and the decisions surrounding the game...that's why Arkansas' leading tackler isn't missing a game after being arrested for interfering with a police officer and being disorderly...it's why the Ohio State LB was only suspended a game for choking out the Wisconsin QB..it's why Nebraska didn't throw off it's player for sucker punching the Mizou fan, breaking his nose. It's why LSU didn't penalize the two players who swung helmets at Miami guys and knocked them unconcious.

I am interested in Miami's new "zero tolerance" policy...the warning has been given...fight and you are gone...let's see how it goes.

I agree that winning does drive some of the decisions. FYI- the Reynolds decision by Ohio State (1 game) had something to do with Reynolds response to something that Sorgi did. Tressel talked to Alverez about it and Alverez agreed that 1 game would be appropriate. Don't ask me what Sorgi did because it wasn't released, but it was caught on game film and the coaches talked about it. Nothing was released. Ohio State fan's however were calling for Reynolds to be suspended for the rest of the season. I can't tell you how Reynolds loss would effect Ohio State, he was a starting linebacker, but it was proven a year later that the guys behind him were better players.

Reynolds should have gotten more then he got, he assaulted a player intentionally. He should have been arrested.

[Eric]

I think that "winning" drives the game and the decisions surrounding the game...that's why Arkansas' leading tackler isn't missing a game after being arrested for interfering with a police officer and being disorderly...it's why the Ohio State LB was only suspended a game for choking out the Wisconsin QB..it's why Nebraska didn't throw off it's player for sucker punching the Mizou fan, breaking his nose. It's why LSU didn't penalize the two players who swung helmets at Miami guys and knocked them unconcious.

I am interested in Miami's new "zero tolerance" policy...the warning has been given...fight and you are gone...let's see how it goes.

And it's also why they suspended these guys for Miami for game against Duke. That's not like the players are missing out on anything. Coker's job is on the line, so it's not like he did the right thing or anything. Same thing with Strock. I don't think Strock's job should be on the line because this is FIU's 2nd season at the 1-A level; give the guy more time! He's been on the hot seat for whatever reason.

[mountainman]

Justification is only a another word for sophistication. Those who justify their evil know they do wrong and thus must provide a reason for ther activity. Justification and the knowledge of wrong walk hand in hand.

Recent fighting incidents involving Miami's football team:

December 30, 2005 Peach Bowl versus LSU
September 16, 2006 versus the University of Louisville
October 14, 2006 versus Florida International University

I think that "winning" drives the game and the decisions surrounding the game

I am interested in Miami's new "zero tolerance" policy...the warning has been given...fight and you are gone...let's see how it goes.

what was even more disappointing and dangerous to the game was the response and behavior of Donna Shalala, the president of the University of Miami.

[Derek]

Is it wrong to call a kid a street punk because he raps, has gold teeth, and dances in the end zone?

Just because of those things doesn't mean the kid is a thug... but rushing into a brawl and bashing people with your football helmet or cleating people while they are on the ground should be unacceptable... those two in particular should be kicked out of school... I know I'd be arrested and kicked out of school if I brought a football helmet and started beating people over the head with it. Why should these guys get treated any differently because they can play football?

Unfortunately, that's EXACTLY why nothing really happens to them, besides a slap on the wrist to keep the public happy.

I would charge them with assault and battery with intent to harm, let them spend a few years in jail, and see how they like that.



I will say that I think Billybud and Spence are right on the money. Miami is Thug university and I hate them for it, I believe i've alluded to this before as one of the main reason's I cant stand to see them win.

[Derek]

My two cents worth:

Although the Miami/FIU incident of show-boating, trash-talking, smearing the kick-holder, fighting, helmet swinging, crutch swinging, stomping of downed players, lack of control by the coaching staffs, failure of the officials to control the game, talking heads shooting their mouths off about joining into the melee, etc, etc, were not appropriate or in the best interest of the game, what was even more disappointing and dangerous to the game was the response and behavior of Donna Shalala, the president of the University of Miami.

And just what was her response Pray tell???

She is batty....Wasnt she a part of the Clinton administration??

I cant wait to hear this...

[Derek]

I cant help but think of the Golden Rule for some reason during this discussion.

Or maybe the Ten Commandments. Maybe some of those things are actually good to follow??

Seems to me that our society is falling apart because we dont have that respect for each other.

[Dossenator]

Billybud...you have to get your facts right. Olajubutu the Razorbacks leading tackler was arrested for DWI. The strange thing about the arrest is that he was never seen driving. He was asleep in his car in a fast food parking lot. The police woke him up and found that he was drunk. I have read several stories and nothing was said about him resisiting arrest etc. According to Arkansas law you never even have to start the car. If you are the only person in the car and drunk then it is a DWI.

As for his punishment...well Houston Nutt has suspended him indefinitely. Nutt sits players who mess up off the field. He has also in the past kicked players off the team for off the field problems.

[mountainman]

I watched and listened to Shalala's response to the incident on TV and then watched her again on a Sportsline Video, and I remember thinking that she was not only justifing what happened, but was condoning what happened by attempting to explain it away and to convince her listeners that she knew what was best and everybody else should just stop talking about it.

Swofford (sp), the ACC commissioner, tried the same tact, but if the news reports are correct, the rest of the ACC schools and the NCAA aren't buying it either.

I'll see if I can find the video and I'll post the link and let you judge for yourself.

[Spence]

I will say that I think Billybud and Spence are right on the money. Miami is Thug university and I hate them for it, I believe i've alluded to this before as one of the main reason's I cant stand to see them win.

I don't think Miami is thug U. I don't think the program is out of control. I think that night the players on the team should have used better judgement, but I believe the officials are the ones who lost control of the game. FIU started this, they took the first shot. I am not saying Miami had the right to storm the field or that swinging a helmet at peoples head should go unpunished (or lightly punished), but when I was 21 if someone would have took a shot at me I would have got my licks in as well.

I don't believe the environment these guys grew up in is an excuse for their actions and I don't believe they should go without being punished. I do believe, however, that the officials should be fired for letting the game get out of hand. If they would have done their job, there would not have been a fight in the first place.

Once that first blow was struck it is easy to say "turn the other cheek", it is a lot harder thing to do in practice.

[donovan]

I am pretty sure that this brawl did not start at the incident the we now see replayed over and over.

I can only speculate that up until that time, players were getting out of control, trash talking, gouging, poking...(I am old and decrepit...but have had sons play college football and the stories they tell of being tackled and what happens at the bottom of the pile, spitting in your face, punching you in the gut, happens all of the time. And the language...taunting...goes on and on and on. ) Finally someone snaps...and you have a Miami FIU incident. (As we know this started long before the game..with pre game and earlier antics.)

The problem is absolutely with the officials. They do not get control of the game until they try when it is too late. How many times in basketball have you seen an official call early technicals for something not really seen..or even regular fouls for seemingly is minor. I those games they players understand and all of the sudden the officials are in control the rest of the game. Get a game where they shove and push etc. and then when it is out of control the officials can never get it back.

Baseball....strike zone is established early in the game. If the ump is consistent...everyone adjusts.

And sometimes in football you see officials throw early flags, and they seemingly set the control pace.

Officials can control behavior and still let the players play. In Miami, they did neither.