First BCS Poll

[donovan]

Auburn over West Virginia? That gives you real confidence in the BCS.

[Spence]

There is an argument for Auburn over West Virginia. I don't agree with it, but based on schedule strengh, there is an argument. We have to wait until WVU plays Pitt, Louisville, and Rutgers. That should help their SOS with the computers.

[mountainman]

Both Texas and West Virginia rankings have been impacted by the Strength of Schedule component of the computer portion of the BCS Rankings, as they should be.

Same impact for the Buckeyes at the top of the rankings ..... the computers have Southern Cal and Michigan ranked higher that the Bucks as opposed to the Harris and Coaches Polls that have them #1.

Strength of Schedule is important, especially to the computer portion of the BCS Poll and how it impacts the overall poll. Teams, as well as their fans, are just going to have to realized and accept it ...... and do something about it ........ if they realistically expect to reach the BCS qualification thresholds or the National Title Game.

[donovan]

Reminds me a lot of the King, when the people were starving, and he proclaimed.....they will get use to it.

[mountainman]

Sorry to hear that, donovan.

Hopefully, you didn't overlook the "and do something about it" statement in my post.

'The People", as you put it, could grow and raise their own food stuff to address their starvation, and stop looking to someone other than themselves to solve their issues. Especially when considering they agreed to being a part of a system, knowing what they are up against and having the ways and means to address the system requirements and standards.

"The King", again, as you put it, is not there to provide for those who have the ability to provide for themselves, but refuse to or haven't done those things the system requires.

Instead, "The King" is there to provide opportunity and rewards for all those that have taken the initiative while meeting the system requirements and standards, that they have willingly agreed to participate in.

[colorado_loves_football]

There is an argument for Auburn over West Virginia. I don't agree with it, but based on schedule strengh, there is an argument. We have to wait until WVU plays Pitt, Louisville, and Rutgers. That should help their SOS with the computers.

I still haven't heard what 'determines' S.O.S. and how it's calculated. Auburn lost, to a team that wasn't ranked, that should 'weigh' against their S.O.S. assuming that's the methodology being applied. I'm inclined to believe there's more 'behind the scenes' than is being acknowledged.
Who has W. Virginia played? Well, Maryland, among others (a 4-2 team who lost to Georgia T. by a paper-thin margin). Auburn, to their credit, has beaten L.S.U. a very good team. Should W. Virginia beat Louisville, that 'should' weigh proportionally in their favor. Still, Im' becoming cynical about how teams are 'gauged' within the BCS, overall. The coaches poll is kind of like a 'country club', 'members only' poll, IMO.
The computer polls likely weigh heavily in 'traditional' pairings, meaning they lack objectivity. The Harris poll, I think, likely follows precedent.
How does a Boise St. team 'earn' a BCS bid? Only one way, I know of.
One 'automatic' BCS qualifier (ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big XII, SEC, Pac-Ten) needs to finish ranked #16 or lower, for the Broncos to 'earn' a bid.

[billybud]

For the sake of argument...Why would WVU be ranked ahead of Auburn?

...WVU has played no Top 30 team (per Sagarin) and has played against a schedule, so far, ranked 100. The team that WVU beat in the bowl to boost them in the preseason polls just got beaten by Vanderbilt.

...Auburn has played four Top 30 teams, has a win over a top 10 team, and has a schedule ranked, so far, at 21.

Auburn has shown it is fairly strong...WVU has not yet. Although WVU is unbeaten, wouldn't Auburn be unbeaten on their schedule? It's a fair argument. SOS does count..

WVU...

WVU beat Marshall...Marshall has not won a game...no competition.
WVU beat Eastern Washington...
WVU beat Maryland...
WVU beat Eastern Carolina......
WVU beat Miss State by 28...Auburn beat 'em by 34...Miss State has lost four games.
WVU beat Syracuse...

Auburn...

beat Washington State...
beat Miss State...shut them out
beat LSU...
beat Buffalo...
beat S. Carolina
lost to Arkansas...a good team
beat Florida...a good team.

[Dossenator]

Auburn and #4 over West Virginia is a joke and Auburn over Arkansas at #13 in the BCS is a joke too. Arkansas only has one loss on the season (to the #2 ranked BCS team). They completely dominated the Auburn Tigers in all parts of the game in Auburn. Held Auburn to 60 rushing yards and raked up 280 rushing yards on the Auburn defense. Total yards were not much different: Auburn around 200 and ARkansas around 400. Not even close. How can they be #4. It makes me laugh. It is still early. Several more weeks to go. We will see how it all plays out.

[mountainman]

Well, here's my two cents worth:

Arkansas showed everybody how to beat Auburn, and Auburn showed everybody how to beat Florida.

From what I've seen so far out of the SEC ...... watch out for Arkansas and Tennessee.

[Spence]

I still haven't heard what 'determines' S.O.S. and how it's calculated. Auburn lost, to a team that wasn't ranked, that should 'weigh' against their S.O.S. assuming that's the methodology being applied. I'm inclined to believe there's more 'behind the scenes' than is being acknowledged.
Who has W. Virginia played? Well, Maryland, among others (a 4-2 team who lost to Georgia T. by a paper-thin margin). Auburn, to their credit, has beaten L.S.U. a very good team. Should W. Virginia beat Louisville, that 'should' weigh proportionally in their favor. Still, Im' becoming cynical about how teams are 'gauged' within the BCS, overall. The coaches poll is kind of like a 'country club', 'members only' poll, IMO.
The computer polls likely weigh heavily in 'traditional' pairings, meaning they lack objectivity. The Harris poll, I think, likely follows precedent.
How does a Boise St. team 'earn' a BCS bid? Only one way, I know of.
One 'automatic' BCS qualifier (ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big XII, SEC, Pac-Ten) needs to finish ranked #16 or lower, for the Broncos to 'earn' a bid.

What is holding USC up in the computer is their win over Arkansas and Arkansas' win over Auburn.

Different computers have different ways of computing SOS. There is no standard formula. How does Boise State get a bid? I think they probably will get a bid this year, under the new rules. What they could do is play a better OOC schedule. If you are complaining about the "good ole boys" network in CFB, the best way to battle that is to beat several of them. Then there is no question whether a team belongs or not. This is an old argument, but it seems the teams who cry the loudest about how unfair the system is are the ones that don't schedule top notch competition.

West Virginia is suffering from playing the 1-aa teams. As their schedule moves along it their SOS will get better as long as they win. Ohio State's SOS is going to go down for the next few weeks until we play Michigan, because the competition isn't very good the next few weeks. Will it drop Ohio State down far enough to take them out of the #1 or #2 spot? I don't know, but if it does then Ohio State will have got caught up much the same way as SC did a few years ago. If it does happen, we will have to except it and move on. It would suck, but that is how it goes. Ohio State usually counts on at least one other B-10 team to be good, it didn't work out that way this year.

[colorado_loves_football]

What is holding USC up in the computer is their win over Arkansas and Arkansas' win over Auburn.

It seems to me, Arkansas should be at #4 according to that 'methodology'. Since USC is a 'solid' #2, and they beat Arkansas, early, that shouldn't weigh the Razorbacks down, disproportionately (and it was close going into 4th Q).

Different computers have different ways of computing SOS. There is no standard formula. How does Boise State get a bid? I think they probably will get a bid this year, under the new rules. What they could do is play a better OOC schedule. If you are complaining about the "good ole boys" network in CFB, the best way to battle that is to beat several of them. Then there is no question whether a team belongs or not. This is an old argument, but it seems the teams who cry the loudest about how unfair the system is are the ones that don't schedule top notch competition.

I was 'premature' in my criticism of the BCS 'formula'. I don't really have a problem with the CNN/USA Today poll, and it is the 'primary' component, (along with Harris Poll). We, actually have an 'advantage', IMO, over the BCS. All we need is a 3rd poll, which ranks teams appropriately (utilizing SOS) and we're AOK.

West Virginia is suffering from playing the 1-aa teams. As their schedule moves along it their SOS will get better as long as they win. Ohio State's SOS is going to go down for the next few weeks until we play Michigan, because the competition isn't very good the next few weeks. Will it drop Ohio State down far enough to take them out of the #1 or #2 spot? I don't know, but if it does then Ohio State will have got caught up much the same way as SC did a few years ago. If it does happen, we will have to except it and move on. It would suck, but that is how it goes. Ohio State usually counts on at least one other B-10 team to be good, it didn't work out that way this year.

A lot of teams scheduled a I-AA opponent, this year (the 12th game made it possible).
I don't think you can 'penalize' W. Virginia for doing so. I-AA in itself doesn't necessarily mean "bad". I guess SOS would need to address that particular issue, fairly. We still need a way to assess a team's SOS.

[billybud]

I-AA in itself doesn't necessarily mean "bad".

No...just insert another modifier..."weak, patsy, non competitive, gimme, mail in win, etc.".

A IIA team is a given win and IIA teams have been so noncompetitive against IA teams that the games themselves have little value. For example...Duke hasn't wom more than 4 games in a season in the last ten years...but beats every IIA team they have played by an average of over three touchdowns.

[Spence]

It seems to me, Arkansas should be at #4 according to that 'methodology'. Since USC is a 'solid' #2, and they beat Arkansas, early, that shouldn't weigh the Razorbacks down, disproportionately (and it was close going into 4th Q).

Your probably right about that, it isn't my methodology, I'm just explaining it. USC is a solid #1 in the computers primarily because of that game and Arkansas beating Auburn. The computers do not know that the game was close until this point, all they know is the final score. The game is proping up USC and holding back Arkansas in the computer polls. I am not saying it make sense, mind you, just explaining it the way I understand it to be.

A lot of teams scheduled a I-AA opponent, this year (the 12th game made it possible).
I don't think you can 'penalize' W. Virginia for doing so. I-AA in itself doesn't necessarily mean "bad". I guess SOS would need to address that particular issue, fairly. We still need a way to assess a team's SOS.

A lot of teams did schedule 1-AA opponents this year, but a lot of teams aren't in competition for a national championship so the glare doesn't shine on them like it does West Virginia. West Virginia went into the season with what many consider a weak schedule. As the play Pitt, Rutgers, and Louisville their SOS should get better in the polls.

My personal opinion is that if you have proven you can play against top competition (ie. Georgia-sugar bowl) and you play a week schedule, you have to look at how they win. For the most part WVU has crushed their opponents. Which is what they should have done. That is why I ranked them #2 in my poll. Steve Slaton is as good as anyone in the country at TB. West Virginia has a very good offense. We don't know about their D at this point. (much like Ohio State) I am holding them in the #2 position at least until they play the teams I mentioned. If the WVU defense proves it can stop offenses like Louisville then I believe they deserve to be #1. If they can't then I will likely raise Michigan in the #2 spot. Michigan may be the best looking all around team in the country. The problem with Michigan, Ohio State, and West Virginia at this point is we don't really know for sure that they are really good. I think it is fair to say all three are good, but maybe really good - maybe not.

The two team that I believe that have looked the best so far this season are Tennessee and Michigan. Tennessee is likely as good as I think they are, I don't know about Michigan. We will all find that out November 18 in Columbus.

[Jason G]

Both Texas and West Virginia rankings have been impacted by the Strength of Schedule component of the computer portion of the BCS Rankings, as they should be.
Strength of Schedule is important, especially to the computer portion of the BCS Poll and how it impacts the overall poll. Teams, as well as their fans, are just going to have to realized and accept it ...... and do something about it ........ if they realistically expect to reach the BCS qualification thresholds or the National Title Game.

My biggest problems with how important the SOS is:

1. It takes two schools to agree to play a game. A team's schedule could be weaker than they would like because potential opponents back out or decide to go a different direction.

2. You can't predict how tough teams will be four, five, or six years down the road when non-conference games are typically scheduled. It may make your schedule much tougher or weaker than originally anticipated.

3. You must play teams within your conference. If you have a great team while your league has a 'down' year it hurts you by no fault of your own.

While I agree that SOS may be just about the best way to differentiate between similar teams I think it is also very much worth mentioning that you can't always "do something about it" or at least not much about it and that sometimes teams deserve the benefit of the doubt despite their SOS.

[Spence]

You can get a pretty good game if you don't expect a home game in return. You may not know how good a team will be in 5 years if you are looking at mid level conference teams, but you can usually count on Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida State etc. to be pretty good. You may get unlucky and it not work out, but most of the time teams like that will be good.