AP poll wk 8.

Postby **Spence** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:24 am

How can it be a fumble, though? I don't know of any circumstance that would make that a fumble.

..fanatic · Postby **..fanatic** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:41 am

If the arm is moving forward - even the slightest bit - it's an incomplete pass. That's really all there is to it as I understand the rule. Something similar happened to VT against BC - refs called it a fumble when the ball was knocked out but on replay, they gave it back to VT saying his arm was clearly moving forward.

That said, I didn't see the UF game - I'm only going by your interpretations of what happened. If the ball wasn't knocked out, and if he wa trying to stop his throwing motion - I don't know - wouldn't that go to the "tuck rule"? I don't think college has a tuck rule, do they?

Postby **Spence** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:21 am

College doesn't have the tuck rule. I agree with you, I saw it and I didn't see and one touch it. Leak cocked to throw, his arm when forward (quite a bit forward), he trying to stop throwing and hold on to the ball and it came out. (my opinion). The referee made a judgement call that he wasn't trying to throw. He was probably right, but that doesn't change the fact that the referee is trying to determine intent. That isn't his job in this case. It should have been an incomplete pass, unless there is a rule to cover this and I don't know of one.

Postby **Eric** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:30 am

Spence wrote:How can it be a fumble, though? I don't know of any circumstance that would make that a fumble.

If his arm was going forward and he was holding onto the ball and it got hit out of his hand. The question was what caused the ball to leave his hand? Did Leak release it himself, or did the Auburn player force the fumble?

Postby **Spence** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:50 am

But the Auburn player didn't touch the ball at all. ESPN showed the replay from several different angles. No of them showed the ball getting touched.

colorado_loves_football · Postby **colorado_loves_football** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:16 pm

Eric wrote:If his arm was going forward and he was holding onto the ball and it got hit out of his hand. The question was what caused the ball to leave his hand? Did Leak release it himself, or did the Auburn player force the fumble?

When I watched it 'live' I thought it was an incomplete forward pass.
Replay has the 'advantage' of several camera angles, any one of which could conceivably 'overturn' the ruling made by the officials, which I understood to be 'fumble'.
As I recall the announcers stated that the replay offical 'held up' the call, in part, because the defender 'struck' the ball with his arm, coincidenal to Chris Leak's 'incomplete pass'. In situations such as those, I think it's very hard, if not impossible for a replay official to 'overturn' the call as made on the field.
A similar predicament existed during the Oklahoma vs. Oregon game. I remember watching it 'live' and thinking it was a 'good' onsides kick. Replay seemed to show the ball striking an Oregon player, which should have 'overturned' the call made on the field.
In both cases, I think it's the responsibility of the 'on field' officials to get it right, because it's a 'lose-lose' proposition for the replay official, IMO.

Postby **Eric** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:28 pm

Spence wrote:But the Auburn player didn't touch the ball at all. ESPN showed the replay from several different angles. No of them showed the ball getting touched.

If the Auburn player didn't touch it at all, how did the trajectory change? The Auburn player did hit it, but it looked like a split second after the ball left Leak's hand.

Postby **Dossenator** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:33 pm

How can the Auburn Tigers be #4 in the BCS and the Razorbacks who completely dominated them in Auburn only be #13 in the BCS. Not sure I understand that.

I saw Herbstreit late last night on ESPN and he was saying he thought that one of the 1 loss SEC teams...if they win out...would probably move themselves into the #2 BCS spot by the end of the year. He said that would probably be the case even if there were more than 1 undefeated team left by year end. He mentioned Auburn, Florida, and Tennessee...but did not mention the Hogs (the Hogs will just have to go out and prove it on the field).

Postby **Spence** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:36 pm

Aside from Michigan, Tennessee is the most complete team I have seen this year. As you could probably guess I am not even the smallest portion a Michigan fan, but I call them how I see them.

As for the poll thing, so you believe that there is no way that Tennessee should be able to jump Florida?

billybud · Postby **billybud** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:18 am

True, Tennessee only has the narrow loss to Florida and the good win over Cal...but they also barely beat Air Force 31-30 and the bloom is off the Georgia win (Vandy did that).

The Vols are still way up there...and so is Auburn in my book.

billybud · Postby **billybud** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:43 am

Oh absolutely...you have to be good...and you have to be lucky to go all the way.

Having a ball ricochet off someone's foot, having an opponent miss a last second field goal, having a late flag thrown that negates the opponent's TD...

Yep...I agree.

Postby **Spence** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:33 pm

No question that you have to be lucky. At some point in every championship run something has to go your way. Last year it was the TE dropping the pass in the endzone at Ohio State that sent Texas on their way. In 2002, Ohio State had so many close calls people were being advise not to watch the Buckeyes play if they had heart problems.

colorado_loves_football · Postby **colorado_loves_football** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:57 pm

billybud wrote:Oh absolutely...you have to be good...and you have to be lucky to go all the way.

Having a ball ricochet off someone's foot, having an opponent miss a last second field goal, having a late flag thrown that negates the opponent's TD...

Yep...I agree.

Luck has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. If you are referring to Nebraska, 1997, when the ball 'bounced' their way, well, maybe Nebraska simply 'got lucky' but even if they did, they capitalized on it. (the tight end could have simply 'dropped' the ricochet).

I don't buy into what you are selling, Billybud. Surprised? You should have included scoring a T.D. on 5th down. But, that was an example of a team playing 'by the rules', as they were explained to them. Maybe, in a perfect world, none of those things ever happen, but we don't live in a 'perfect' world. And, generally speaking, good teams find ways to win.

billybud · Postby **billybud** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:07 pm

I don't agree with your post..but then I haven't read it.

Postby **Spence** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:19 pm

Good teams do find a way to win. Good teams all have to be lucky, at some point, to win a national championship.

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