I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

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billybud
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:48 pm

Basketball is different...

But the tourney is pablum for the masses...who believe that everyone has a chance to win. That anything can happen. THe stats say that is an illusion.

You do have a shot...but in the same way I have a chance to win $100 million if I buy a lottery ticket.

Of the 136 Final Four teams since 1991...ZERO have been from seeds 7-16. Those teams are there for the cinderella stories, the illusion that anyone can win...but are not there to win the championship. You could lose one half of the tournament.

And the seeding is independent of any conference champions. So conference champions really don't play into the tournament other than for automatic qualifying. Sadly, every year, teams stay home while lesser teams play who are AQ because they won the Summit League or Colonial conference, etc. Only to exit the tournament.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:21 pm

I know seeding is independent, because the NCAA is the same as the CFP committee. They feel they have to control the room. I'm saying why does it matter of they play off the champs. The winner of it would be one of the best teams in the country and no one can say they didn't have a shot. From the beginning of the season until that team plays themselves out of it, they have a legit shot. Every team controls their own destiny, however strong or weak their chances are of winning. If the second best team is in the same conference as the best team, well ok. They had the chance to knock off number 1. just like the first team the best team will play in the tourney. Winner's advance.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:58 am

Why does it matter?

Because lesser teams would play while better teams sat...Alabama would not have won the title because of the geography of the East-West SEC divisions...and they were the best team that year on the field.

Sometimes, the best may be someone other than a conference champ, sometimes it may be a 2nd team from the same conference...and almost certaintly it will not be the conference champ of at least one conference every year.

The LSU-Alabama, Penn State-Ohio State games will knock out two teams from conference championship consideration...at the end of the year, one or both may be one of the best programs in the country...ahead of Oklahoma, Oregon etc.

It only matters to those who want the best teams to play for the right to be champions.

The "nobody can say that they didn't have a shot" is weak sauce...the basketball pablum. Win, with wins that have value, and you can play for it. No football socialism or participation trophy mechanisms.

And...I think stating that the Committee wants to control the room is a disservice to a group of distinguished people who are tasked with the difficult task of selecting the top four teams. You might as well say that the 130 computer programs are trying to control the room...the AP is trying to control the room...because they and the Committee are very close.

The Committee wants to put up the best four...that is their charge, their only charge. They do consider the value of being the conference champion, but also consider other factors. Advanced metrics, SOS, etc. And yes, some folks will all not agree with that final selection. And that will always be so. Particularly if a weak conference champ gets an AQ over a much stronger Bama. LSU, Penn State, Ohio State, etc.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:07 am

I still have not read a decent explanation of why having the best play for the title is not a good thing....

Yeah...I get the illusion (like the basketball illusion) that everyone would have a chance....and that illusion sells to the casual basketball fan. And it is an illusion that all have a chance to win...the lower half of the seeds have never gotten to the final four.

In a very large playoff field of 64, the good teams that you sit in favor of an AQ team, are minimalized...we can't play 64 in football.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Mountainman » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:02 am

The issue is who gets to decide how “best” is determined...... as mentioned, the ‘control of the room’ is being controlled by the narrative of ‘best’ determination.

I’m one who believes that the Game itself should make that determination. I would like to have a decent explanation as to why that’s not a good thing. Determining a ‘winner’ is much better than subjectively determining a ‘best’.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:52 am

Oh BS...

"Control of the room" BS....More conspiratorial theory....

The Committee, the computers, the AP.........or the whiny voices of those who believe that the Illuminati is a powerful and savagely guarded organization that secretly controls the entire modern world, probably while wearing cloaks.

There are kooks who believe such....and also kooks who believe folks like Barry Alvarez, Oliver Luck (when he was WVU athletic director), Condaleeza Rice, etc....conspire to somehow allow only certain P5 programs to play in the CFP.

The CFP rankings are currently...Ohio State, LSU, Alabama, Penn State, Clemson

The average of 105 computers is...LSU, Ohio State, Penn State, Clemson, Alabama

The AP is LSU, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Penn State

Name your poison.

Just curious....given that the FBS CFP voted on a four team play off and charged a Committee of distinguished people to deliver four teams....Just how would YOU come up with four teams to play off.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Mountainman » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:14 pm

billybud wrote:Oh BS...

"Control of the room" BS....More conspiratorial theory....

The Committee, the computers, the AP.........or the whiny voices of those who believe that the Illuminati is a powerful and savagely guarded organization that secretly controls the entire modern world, probably while wearing cloaks.

There are kooks who believe such....and also kooks who believe folks like Barry Alvarez, Oliver Luck (when he was WVU athletic director), Condaleeza Rice, etc....conspire to somehow allow only certain P5 programs to play in the CFP.

The CFP rankings are currently...Ohio State, LSU, Alabama, Penn State, Clemson

The average of 105 computers is...LSU, Ohio State, Penn State, Clemson, Alabama

The AP is LSU, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Penn State

Name your poison.

Just curious....given that the FBS CFP voted on a four team play off and charged a Committee of distinguished people to deliver four teams....Just how would YOU come up with four teams to play off.



Minnesota beat Penn State today.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:39 pm

That's right....in football, every weekend is a playoff.....you have to win your games...

And that is what is great about football vs basketball...in basketball, a regular season loss means little.

In football, when a front runner doesn't hold serve, the whole warp and woof of the football world feels a tremble...

Come Sunday, the Top Five will change.

Gawd...I love the college game...and the importance of every Saturday.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:44 pm

And Bama may lose to LSU...leaving LSU, Ohio State, Clemson, as three of the Top Four....
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:21 pm

billybud wrote:That's right....in football, every weekend is a playoff.....you have to win your games...

And that is what is great about football vs basketball...in basketball, a regular season loss means little.

In football, when a front runner doesn't hold serve, the whole warp and woof of the football world feels a tremble...

Come Sunday, the Top Five will change.

Gawd...I love the college game...and the importance of every Saturday.


But it isn't. If every week was a playoff then losing would put you out. It doesn't. We can say we know who the best teams are, but we don't. How many people would have said Minnesota was better than Penn State before today? What if they hadn't played and Penn State was sitting there with one loss? I would wager to say that every year of the cfp playoff there was a team out side the top 4 that was better or could have beaten at least one of those that was in.
I don't think the committee cheats or has an agenda. I think they truly try to put the best four teams in. They just can't evaluate that many teams so they use past history and their eyes to decide who is best. LSU beats Alabama so they must be great. Penn State loses to Minnesota so they must be bad. WE are all guilty of this. Bama is usually good so they must be now. But what if they aren't. What if Minnesota really is good. Can the committee put them in? I doubt it. This new committee system is the same as every old system, actually even better for the blue blood teams. If you are a fan of a blue blood it is good for your team. If Minnesota wins the rest of their games and loses by 1 point to an undefeated Ohio State who hasn't really had a close game, does Minnesota make the top 4? I don't think so. Not because of a conspiracy. Because history doesn't allow them to be good. Ohio State must have had a bad game.

There is no way to subjectively pick the top 4 teams. Either play off the champs or go back to just naming a champ because all this undisputed champ stuff isn't honest.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Cane from the Bend » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:47 pm

Spence wrote:
billybud wrote:That's right....in football, every weekend is a playoff.....you have to win your games...

And that is what is great about football vs basketball...in basketball, a regular season loss means little.

In football, when a front runner doesn't hold serve, the whole warp and woof of the football world feels a tremble...

Come Sunday, the Top Five will change.

Gawd...I love the college game...and the importance of every Saturday.


But it isn't. If every week was a playoff then losing would put you out. It doesn't. We can say we know who the best teams are, but we don't. How many people would have said Minnesota was better than Penn State before today? What if they hadn't played and Penn State was sitting there with one loss? I would wager to say that every year of the cfp playoff there was a team out side the top 4 that was better or could have beaten at least one of those that was in.
I don't think the committee cheats or has an agenda. I think they truly try to put the best four teams in. They just can't evaluate that many teams so they use past history and their eyes to decide who is best. LSU beats Alabama so they must be great. Penn State loses to Minnesota so they must be bad. WE are all guilty of this. Bama is usually good so they must be now. But what if they aren't. What if Minnesota really is good. Can the committee put them in? I doubt it. This new committee system is the same as every old system, actually even better for the blue blood teams. If you are a fan of a blue blood it is good for your team. If Minnesota wins the rest of their games and loses by 1 point to an undefeated Ohio State who hasn't really had a close game, does Minnesota make the top 4? I don't think so. Not because of a conspiracy. Because history doesn't allow them to be good. Ohio State must have had a bad game.

There is no way to subjectively pick the top 4 teams. Either play off the champs or go back to just naming a champ because all this undisputed champ stuff isn't honest.


I'm all for this ...

The Big Bowl games have become so cheapened, because these kids do not care anymore. Either they are in the tournament, or the season was unsuccessful, so why even play.

In the pre-BCS days; at least there was a chance your team could be named champs. Remove this contrived idea that you have the #1 & #2 teams, and they are the Best 2 teams ... what you have, is the opportunity for multiple champs.

If you cannot find a way to give everyone an avenue to be represented, then don't pretend to have a system that uses a balanced method to rank the teams.

In the old system; the assumed #1 & #2 teams could both lose their respective Bowl games, which made it possible for someone not even playing in those games to be a potential Champion.

What we have now; there is no way to be assured that the Best team wins the Tournament out of the 4 who receive the invitation, with the way it is set up.

The only way you can know that, is if those 4 played a Round Robin tournament, where they each have to play one another. With the best 2 out of 4 play a second time for the title.

And since there is no friggin way there would ever be a playoff design like that in College Football; you will never know if you actually have the best 2 in the Championship game ... let alone, the best team being awarded the Title.

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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:53 pm

Yep. This whole playoff thing is no more objective that naming a champ. At least when it was just the bowls lots of teams thought they had a chance to win if they won their bowl game.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:08 am

Yes Cane...you can lose and stay in...if others lose too.

But a two loss team has never made the playoff.

The way it is now is as close an approximation as one can get to the best team....

This morning the 130 computers have Oklahoma at #11 despite their 8-1 record and their Big 12 standings lead and Minnesota #14 at 9-0...with Penn State #4 having lost....Go computers!
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Mountainman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:19 am

billybud wrote:Oh BS...

"Control of the room" BS....More conspiratorial theory....

The Committee, the computers, the AP.........or the whiny voices of those who believe that the Illuminati is a powerful and savagely guarded organization that secretly controls the entire modern world, probably while wearing cloaks.

There are kooks who believe such....and also kooks who believe folks like Barry Alvarez, Oliver Luck (when he was WVU athletic director), Condaleeza Rice, etc....conspire to somehow allow only certain P5 programs to play in the CFP.

The CFP rankings are currently...Ohio State, LSU, Alabama, Penn State, Clemson

The average of 105 computers is...LSU, Ohio State, Penn State, Clemson, Alabama

The AP is LSU, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Penn State

Name your poison.

Just curious....given that the FBS CFP voted on a four team play off and charged a Committee of distinguished people to deliver four teams....Just how would YOU come up with four teams to play off.



I’ve laid out how I would do it...... all you gotta do is win. No narrative for the weak minded to buy, no distinguished people to lend credibility to a hoax, no computers to spin numbers through algorithms, no conspiracy to unravel.

It’s so simple, even kook could figure it out.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:25 am

Minnesota #49 SOS according to Phil Steele beat a committee ranked top 10 team. It wasn't a fluke. Minnesota outplayed the Nits. Alabama #44 according to Steele lost to a Top 10 team. That wasn't a fluke either. If having a name school doesn't matter, lets see where Minnesota is ranked compared to Alabama this week. Lets see if the committee can rank teams based on what they have done and there name or their history.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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