Swofford as ACC Commisioner

[strawman]

So when does some of this stink come back on Swofford? He was AD for the holes from 1980 - 1997, 4 years of which the blatant and systematic cheating took place. He should immediately step down as ACC Commissioner or be removed. If that level of cheating is going on under his nose or with his tacit approval (either way) he isn't qualified to lead the conference.

[billybud]

While I may not be a Swofford fan....I totally disrgard the opinions of "haters" such as yourself ....And you outed yourself when you referred to the Tar Heels as "holes"...juvenile smack....

[strawman]

I'm not denying I'm a hater of the "tarheels" (better?) but I'm also not a fan of a team and university that had a system of cheating in place for 18 years. All the while bragging and gloating about the "Carolina Way" of doing things the right way. Is it fair to the other schools that are trying to compete by the rules to have a commissioner who failed to stop this or recognize it, lead the conference? I was shocked when Tressel was named president at Youngstown. Could you imagine him being Big Ten commissioner? By the way, Swofford was the one that lobbied the ACC to give Clemson an extra year of punishment above and beyond what the NCAA gave them when Danny Ford was caught cheating. His silence has been deafening on the issue at his alma mater. I imagine most fans are 'haters' when it comes to another team taking short cuts to success. 18 years is no accident, it is the Carolina Way!

[billybud]

Doookies! sigh.

The NC State crowd owns the patent on Tar Heel hate.

But...even though I don't care that much for Swofford, I give him the statute of limitations on that UNC scandal.

What I think he should be investigated for is the insistence on the awarding of the major ACC media contract to Raycom, where his son Chad is a major player.

[strawman]

Doookies! sigh.

The NC State crowd owns the patent on Tar Heel hate.

But...even though I don't care that much for Swofford, I give him the statute of limitations on that UNC scandal.

What I think he should be investigated for is the insistence on the awarding of the major ACC media contract to Raycom, where his son Chad is a major player.

I agree, another strike against him.

[Cane from the Bend]

I'm not necessarily a fan of the Carolinas, but, on this issue I'm less likely to get fused ... annoyed a bit, yes, but fire lit, not just yet.

If we were still in the Big East I might not care that much. But being a member of the ACC is different. The problem is that it almost feels like we're too new in the club to not walk around with slightly foggy goggles on.

Swofford is one of those, get on board with us, type of guys. I'm not particularly thrilled with his approach to running things. However, I'd venture to say, most conferences have a little dirt under the rug that occasionally builds up whenever something needs to swept.

In NC's case, that ball of dust has become a lumpy mess under the folds of their carpet., and someone is giving an estimate on new flooring.

Swofford's silence is common. He's Vocal when he needs to be, Business as usual when the heat is off, and Silent when convenient.

I do not like cheating. No matter the logic.

I'm less enthusiastic in my ire for it these days, because, I see cheating from every corner & shadow around college football.

Maybe my cynicism has to do with the skeleton found buried in my own backyard. But, I do not believe there are many schools out there, who aren't breaking the rules in some way.

Scandals -- Cheating -- Bought Players -- Improper Benefits -- Academic Fraud -- Information Cover Ups
it's all very real, and has become a standard in the game.

I can tell you, my own passion for the game has dwindled a little. At least where my own team is involved --- it has however, allowed me to become more familiar with several schools I would normally not pay much attention to.

It has also softened me up some, to teams I begrudged, due to what I concluded were cheating programs, because I realized that everybody was doing it ... just, some schools are either better at it, or are being given a pass [such as this for instance with North Carolina].

We are supposed to be in a society where nobody is guilty until proven they are not innocent.
We became a society, where we wanted the guilty verdict without the investigation.

I got aggressive in my stance against this sort of knee jerk sentencing.
Now, I'm either dulled to the senses of it, or, see it for what it is.

Major College Football is such a cash cow for universities, that the NCAA only tends to reveal a school's cheating when they need to validate their existence.

The NCAA is a board run by former ADs and University Presidents. They all know what is going on, and they are all in it together.

If it were just a matter of Major College Football wanting to be a minor league for the pros, the it is within the ability of the schools to disband the NCAA, and move in a different direction.

They do not, because the NCAA gives the public guise that there is someone watching and regulating these programs. It serves as a sense of authority, where all schools are created equal, and parody is afforded to every member program.

The truth is, corruption starts there, and works its way down --- everybody is guilty of something, and parody is sold to those who are marketable.

---

The nfl has a bylaw that says players & coaches may not take money to shave points or throw a game.
The nfl, however, hold the right to see a game go in a direction they choose.

A few decades back, someone sewed the nfl over their fixing of football games.
The nfl did not deny fixing of the games, rather argued they had the right to do so.
The nfl cited themselves, not as a sport, but a source of entertainment.
The Judge ruled in the nfl's favor.

{there is actually a book that details all of this information, unfortunately, I neither know the name of the book of author of it to reference --- I learned of it by listening to an interview with the author of the book --- it is legit, and the main reason I no longer watch the nfl}

---

If the nfl as an entity, can fix games, but regulate that its players & coaches may not --- then how far of a down cry is the plausibility that the NCAA is turning their heads for the flavor of the day, when it comes to violations.

We hear all too often how the NCAA football should be modeled off of the nfl --- just, what precisely is it do they mean by that?

---

At any rate:

North Carolina Head Coach, from 1988 to 1997
Mack Brown



.
.
.

[strawman]

I agree, Mack has dirt on his hands from this too. I'm no Mack apologist. He left the Texas program in shambles when he stopped caring after Colt McCoy left. I'm hopeful that Charlie Strong can rebuild things and ideally do it the "right way". So far it seems he is trying.

I am hoping to see someone from espn bring this up to him while he is sitting behind the desk giving his opinion on the days games, but I know that won't happen. Even if they did he would say he wasn't aware of it while he was there.

I feel a little like Don Quixote tilting at windmills. But the "everybody does it" excuse seems like it is getting tired, but maybe that is the new reality in college sports. The NCAA probably won't be governing college athletics in a few years anyway and college football can become the semi-pro league that it has been steadily turning into over the last several years.

[donovan]

Sports has always been a reflection of society. I suppose that is why examples are used to make a point, seemingly 90% of them use sports as the story.
Honor, a nominative form and root of honesty. ([url]Middle English: from Old French honeste, from Latin honestas, from honestus (see honest). The original sense was ‘honor, respectability,’ later ‘decorum, virtue, chastity.’ )[/url]'

Honor use to be a core value that was assumed without discussion. I know of one of our posters, I think there are some others, that served in the Marine Corp. It is one organization that instilled honor in it members. (Honor This is the bedrock of our character. It is the quality that empowers Marines to exemplify the ultimate in ethical and moral behavior: to never lie, cheat, or steal; to abide by an uncompromising code of integrity; to respect human dignity; and to have respect and concern for each other. It represents the maturity, dedication, trust, and dependability that commit Marines to act responsibly, be accountable for their actions, fulfill their obligations, and hold others accountable for their actions.) Those I know seem to live that way long after they are out of the Corp. I was in a different branch, I don't think that was a basic value taught with the same amount of rigor, though I think the majority of members of all services are honorable men and women.

Where is that in our Universities and their appendages. It is lost to most. If you want collegiate activities to reflect honor, you have to start with the institutions.

This is why I think Professional Wrestling is one of the more honest forms of entertainment. The don't care we know it is phony, and yet, we choose to believe.

[Derek]

Sports has always been a reflection of society. I suppose that is why examples are used to make a point, seemingly 90% of them use sports as the story.
Honor, a nominative form and root of honesty. ([url]Middle English: from Old French honeste, from Latin honestas, from honestus (see honest). The original sense was ‘honor, respectability,’ later ‘decorum, virtue, chastity.’ )[/url]'

Honor use to be a core value that was assumed without discussion. I know of one of our posters, I think there are some others, that served in the Marine Corp. It is one organization that instilled honor in it members. (Honor This is the bedrock of our character. It is the quality that empowers Marines to exemplify the ultimate in ethical and moral behavior: to never lie, cheat, or steal; to abide by an uncompromising code of integrity; to respect human dignity; and to have respect and concern for each other. It represents the maturity, dedication, trust, and dependability that commit Marines to act responsibly, be accountable for their actions, fulfill their obligations, and hold others accountable for their actions.) Those I know seem to live that way long after they are out of the Corp. I was in a different branch, I don't think that was a basic value taught with the same amount of rigor, though I think the majority of members of all services are honorable men and women.

Where is that in our Universities and their appendages. It is lost to most. If you want collegiate activities to reflect honor, you have to start with the institutions.

This is why I think Professional Wrestling is one of the more honest forms of entertainment. The don't care we know it is phony, and yet, we choose to believe.

Well done again Sir! Especially with the WWE analogy.

[Cane from the Bend]

The irony of bounds is a fun approach --- Donovan, you say:

Sports has always been a reflection of society. I suppose that is why examples are used to make a point, seemingly 90% of them use sports as the story.

And though I used the nfl as my reference point to illustrate the NCAA misdoings ... I, in my head, was actually thinking of professional wrestling when crossing my juxtaposition of the subject matter.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

I feel a little like Don Quixote tilting at windmills. But the "everybody does it" excuse seems like it is getting tired, but maybe that is the new reality in college sports.

It is not an excuse I am making. It is me dropping my shaking head, shrugging my shoulders, and giving up.

I'm tired of being mad about things I am aware I have no ability to change. The problem isn't going to go away, because the problem is every day business for those who could do something about it.

We only here about what they want us to here about. Unless an independent media source gets their hands on something big; then the NCAA saves face, telling us, they have been investigating the matter for some time.

The reality is, they simply don't care.
So why should I?

.
.
.

[donovan]

The reality is, they simply don't care.
So why should I?

.
.
.[/quote]

Because if not you, who? You care because you stay involve and speak your voice. You are a "voice crying in the wilderness" and that puts you in very good company. Edmund Burke said, " “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” You are a good man, that's why you care.

[Spence]

Because right is right and if enough people shine enough light on this, it the NCAA will have no choice but to act. You should not give up in your belief system just because they are lacking morally.

[Cane from the Bend]

My belief system is not in question. My structure or moral fiber has little to do with things or this nature.

My voice has been out there, and I have expressed my opinion emphatically. Not just here, but other places, as well. It seems as though, the louder my voice, worse things get.

People in general are not getting on board with this sentiment. I have seen many express the same views as I on other websites. But the media driven public opinion is growing. And the media is in bed with the NCAA.

"When good men do nothing" and "because right is right" are great cliches. But the sad truth is, with regards to major college football, that is all they are, cliches.

The NCAA is acting ... only, they are using counter measures to stay ahead.

We are to the point now, that, without a whistle blower, nothing is gonna change.

.
.
.

[Spence]

My belief system is not in question. My structure or moral fiber has little to do with things or this nature.

My voice has been out there, and I have expressed my opinion emphatically. Not just here, but other places, as well. It seems as though, the louder my voice, worse things get.

People in general are not getting on board with this sentiment. I have seen many express the same views as I on other websites. But the media driven public opinion is growing. And the media is in bed with the NCAA.

"When good men do nothing" and "because right is right" are great cliches. But the sad truth is, with regards to major college football, that is all they are, cliches.

The NCAA is acting ... only, they are using counter measures to stay ahead.

We are to the point now, that, without a whistle blower, nothing is gonna change.

I'm not questioning your belief system, just saying why you should care.

.
.
.

[donovan]

I am concerned about a lot of things in America, as I know you all are also. College football is not even that high on the list. What galls me, is we have allow greed, power and corruption to not be confronted. I have been opposed to the NCAA for many years. I see it like so many other areas in this country. Those responsible for an action, abdicate their responsibility to a higher body that assumed moral superiority.

People may believe Burke's writings are shopworn cliches, but since does truth need to be changed to appease those that have forgotten the past. The father of modern conservative thought needs to be championed at our very roots and then the vestiges of that plant be revealed as bears of good fruit.


"when bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle" Burke

It is not the question of our moral fiber, it is a question of our convictions.