Exactly why I don't like Politics

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WoVeU
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Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby WoVeU » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:04 pm

"Republican front-runner Mitt Romney stumbled down the homestretch of the New Hampshire primary on Monday, declaring, "I like being able to fire people who provide services to me" as his rivals intensified already fierce criticism."

Now I don't care much for the guy, but as soon as I read this I am thinking me too. Thinking of Doctors, Dentists, Child Care Providers, (Teaches, real nice if you can afford it), Lawn Care and Technicians of any sort for Household things! To me this is what comes to mind, and I assume he is referring to government providing services, where you then can not do this with any ease. (Just look at teachers.)

But it is used as a tool!

http://news.yahoo.com/fire-whom-romney-draws-flak-eve-nh-primary-215553690.html
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Brian Roastbeef » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:29 pm

Yep. It also illustrates exactly why I don't like the media. They proudly twist anything and everything that is said, and pull it out of context in order to fit their leftist, statist aims. Their one duty is to report what is going on, and they make no attempt to do so.

Romney was speaking about freeing up the insurance market, with I believe an allusion to "firing" Obama as one who has been a subpar performer for us. The full quote was:

"It also means if you don’t like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me. If someone doesn’t give me the good service I need, I’m going to go get somebody else to provide that service to me."

The media reported half of that and that arrogant intolerable opportunist Huntsman proudly jumped on the out-of-context remark. :roll: Unsurprisingly, Gingrich, who himself has been at least as willing to jump on the issues as Romney, proudly joined in the attack as part of his thin-skinned initiative to screw Romney at any cost.

Even worse, Rick Perry - who I like and may have voted for in the unlikely event that there is any sort of primary, let alone one in which he's still viable, by the time NY's late-April date comes up - gladly joined in the pile on. This turned into two Republicans and one wannabe Republican using anti-capitalist, Elizabeth Warren rhetoric to attack a fellow of their own party on what should be a strong point of his business career. Reagan's 11th commandment is in tatters.

I like but am not crazy about Romney. (Neither of the two men I would have liked to see run have chosen to do so, instead opting to stay Gov. of Louisiana and Rep. from Wisconsin's 1st CD) In the end he's still far more conservative than any Democrat out there, especially the one he'll likely face in November. In fact, he's arguably the most conservative candidate we've run since GHWB. The primaries are about finding the right candidate to send against the opposition, not destroying your own using the opposition's rhetoric. Very disappointing, though I will join Michelle Malkin in commending Rick Santorum for declining to join in the stupidity there.

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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby donovan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:29 pm

I like Romney.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Brian Roastbeef » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:34 pm

I don't understand Romney's continuous defense of Romneycare, but I do trust him to govern as a conservative and work wholeheartedly to repeal Obamacare. He's thoroughly committed himself there.

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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby donovan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:00 pm

I think he has no choice but to defend Romneycare. We are such a long way from where we need to be, the compromise has to be in the transition. You can not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Great the Gingrich, Paul, Perry and Sanatorium define the clean sheet of paper government. But pragmatism requires turning a the ship around before going forward. Glaciers do not make right turns..and we...WE..we the people have allowed government to become a glacier.

I think Romney out of all the candidates, will make the most mature, American oriented, voice of liberty and freedom decision on issues that will come up in the next four years...ones we do not even have a clue what they are. That is what concerns me. I can not imagine four more years of what we have not. The rule of law has been replaced by the rule of regulation.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Spence » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:15 pm

donovan wrote:I think he has no choice but to defend Romneycare. We are such a long way from where we need to be, the compromise has to be in the transition. You can not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Great the Gingrich, Paul, Perry and Sanatorium define the clean sheet of paper government. But pragmatism requires turning a the ship around before going forward. Glaciers do not make right turns..and we...WE..we the people have allowed government to become a glacier.

I think Romney out of all the candidates, will make the most mature, American oriented, voice of liberty and freedom decision on issues that will come up in the next four years...ones we do not even have a clue what they are. That is what concerns me. I can not imagine four more years of what we have not. The rule of law has been replaced by the rule of regulation.


Romney has to own Romney care because it is his. He does say that what was right for Massachusetts isn't necessarily what is right for the nation. I think you are probably right about Romney being the bridge. He isn't my favorite. I view him like I view him lots like I viewed Clinton. I won't be his biggest fan, but I will support him in the end.

I view Paul to be lots like Sam Adams, he is a good person to keep the conversation going, but his ideas are not practical. We can't pull all foreign aid even if we want, because our way of life is threatened when we have instability in the world. We can't let 20 year olds opt out of Social Security because he have tens of millions of people who paid into the system their whole lifes (who didn't have the option of opting out) and there is no money in the fund because the politicians have spent it trying to give us everything we think we want while making us believe it was free. Paul is a good man to keep yelling from the mountain, but not the right man to hold the office.

My favorite is Gingrich. He is progmatic and also he understands history. I don't think anyone can be a good president unless they understand history. I also think that Gingrich understands the economy better than anyone in the race on either side. I don't think he can be elected because he comes across as arrogant. I think he is a guy who isn't afraid to make decisions that may cost his job. If we had 535 people like that we would be lots better off. Again, though, Gingrich just can't when at this time in history.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Eric » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:11 pm

The world is instable, even with foreign aid. The US supported Mubarak by giving him aid and, according to a WikiLeaks document, the FBI was actually training some of their secret police. Didn't work out to well for the US. Israel also has enough weapons to defend itself, so I don't think they need the US' help either.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Spence » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:14 pm

Eric wrote:The world is instable, even with foreign aid. The US supported Mubarak by giving him aid and, according to a WikiLeaks document, the FBI was actually training some of their secret police. Didn't work out to well for the US. Israel also has enough weapons to defend itself, so I don't think they need the US' help either.


I'll agree we don't hit what we throw darts at lots of times, but I still don't think we can walk away from foreign aid.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby WoVeU » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:30 pm

Spence wrote:My favorite is Gingrich. He is progmatic and also he understands history. I don't think anyone can be a good president unless they understand history. I also think that Gingrich understands the economy better than anyone in the race on either side. I don't think he can be elected because he comes across as arrogant. I think he is a guy who isn't afraid to make decisions that may cost his job. If we had 535 people like that we would be lots better off. Again, though, Gingrich just can't when at this time in history.


I agree...Gingrich is just more able in many ways compared to the others. I will vote for him...if I am going down I am going down swinging. He is more intelligent and smarter than the rest. If we were voting for Humanitarian, Husband, or perhaps Father of the Year or anything else then I wouldn't vote for him. But we are voting for a President!

I like Ron Paul's ideas on several thing, SS is joke and foreign aid is a joke...among many other things. But he has to have more than that, tell me how we get from point A to point B. Foreign Aid I would stop immediately to every country. I learned how to drive so I wouldn't have to walk! I learned how to fight, so I wouldn't have to run! (That is a WoVeU original.) I built up a military so I wouldn't have to buy friends...that should be the Diplomatic Mantra. That being said, if the UK, Spain, Israel, Canada, Australia, UAE and perhaps a few others have a program that directly benefits our needs and interests and it behooves us to help fund something then so be it...but the line item visibility would be there. As for SS, you have to have some interim plan...it would have to phase out. And that would likely mean someone my age, 40, would get 40% the money they paid in back and they get no SS. Thus the System is pocketing my other 60% and all that businesses paid in on my behalf. Then you have to have another plan for other ages...and get us out of the Government Breast Business.

(*EIC would come to a near grinding halt within a year. Other Federal Welfares, including many subsidies, would be reduced by 90% within 4 years! And I'd cut so many government jobs it would make your head spin!)
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Spence » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:25 pm

Paul is a good Sam Adams, but we need a cross between Jefferson and Washington.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby WoVeU » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:01 am

For the problems we have...there is no Jefferson or Washington...let alone a good blend. (But I think one will be on the seen shortly.)

This country underwent a serious construction effort at its founding and as implausible as that seemed...it was done with a much more centralized people and culture than we currently have.
We now have a country where nothing is sacred, and we are now composed of such diverse religions, philosophies, and economic ideologies that there is not a man alive who can lead, not a man who could galvanize this. On top of this we can't in any notable way move to a more collected mass...because that takes great effort and communication. But we run all communication through so many filters (PC) that the one thing never really transmitted is truth. And thus you have the enigma that is the US and even the world. We are out shopping for bullets, yet we don't own a gun.

The only solution would be a move to Provincial Districts, a separation into 3 to 5 regions. Leaving the Federal Umbrella as a provider of Defense, Reduced Monetary Structure, Transportation, and a much reduced Trade and Environmental broad based platform. Congress and the courts then rebounded under these provinces and a overhauled Constitution adopted for each....then reduce the Federal Constitution and Office of the President to a scope that fits diagrammed overlaps in the peoples wishes across the provinces. Then States Rights would have to be refounded to allow for even more finite local scopes of governance. From here you can let the natural fit of people to find their places and really begin to move forward in structures where people can agree and get behind ideas so that leadership can have meaning.

At this point, nothing else will work. I might only be 40, but I know what people can not do when no common accord, principle, and agreement can be found....nothing but dissolution and destruction. I have seen it on every level from a family and up...and we have a good 50 years of federal administration to serve witness.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby donovan » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:04 am

I have been a small 'l" libertarian for years. I study Austrian economics and believe in them. My problem with Gingrich is he is a populist...by his own admission. He is an idea guy, he is not a leader. I am not currently thrilled with his attacks on the free market by assuming the Romney's of the world caused these business failures....They weren't for sale because they were making so much money. His attacks on free enterprise are, disingenuous, in my belief...I don't believe he believes them; if he does...then he is not my guy. Is Romney moderate...sure...there is no virtue in being conservative, liberal or moderate. What there is virtue in is supporting liberty and freedom. Of allowing individuals to act in their own best self interest. I see Romney as a President that that gets us from where we are, to the next step closer as to where we should be, change the tide. No one is going from John Maynard Keynes to Friedrich Von Hayek over night. But Romney does not believe in planned economies and other than Paul, he is the only one expressing that thought. (Problem with Paul's foreign policy, he only in soundbites tells the conclusion...he needs to tell us how we are going to get there, and overnight is not going to work anymore than it will economically.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Dossenator » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:38 am

I don't think it really matters who gets the nomination for the Republicans. Unfortunately, I am not sure any of them have a chance at beating Obama.
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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby Spence » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:57 pm

Dossenator wrote:I don't think it really matters who gets the nomination for the Republicans. Unfortunately, I am not sure any of them have a chance at beating Obama.


I hope that isn't true. If we have a new term that spends like his first one, we will be Greece - only no one is going to stand in line to help us.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Exactly why I don't like Politics

Postby donovan » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:10 pm

I am optimistic. Republicans are there own worst enemies..but I have faith in the American people, that they want to restore family values, freedom and liberty. We are, one nation, Under God... This is not about political leanings. Why I can not think of a more honorable man, a real liberal, the Patrick Moynihan. And I can not think of a more despicable conservative than David Duke. Barry Goldwater, the Abraham Lincoln of our times, rejected by a nation in unbelief said, "Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism."
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