Grumblings Grow Louder

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Spence
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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby Spence » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:31 pm

Eric wrote:I believe the South gets a hard time for being labeled as backwards. I don't think they are at all. I do think there's an element of defensiveness and self-pity for some people, but by no means is it a majority. Heck, I even defended the Confederacy, so what does that make me? :lol:


The backwards stereotype is hollywood driven it doesn't hold much water.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby WoVeU » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:17 pm

billybud wrote:Those who have been in the service know...you follow orders. You go where they send you and you are trained to follow orders...even if it means charging a machine gun or firing at a hometown crowd.

The 101st Airborne was certainly prepared to take down the Arkansas National Guard if it came to that...

I would hesitate to believe that the military would not follow the orders of the CIC.


This used to be an almost free country...you can almost, kind of, believe what you'd like. Again we ain't talking about a regional thing. This ain't the Vietnam Era. No draftees since, no dope heads, very few kids that didn't graduate high school, it is a different world. They don't take guys in lieu of going to jail. I served with guys who were young Airmen when the Vietnam Era guys were still around...guys who enlisted between 68 and 75. I was told it was a different world, counter-culture had some acceptance and liberal thinking was never higher (some guys still smoked dope on the flight line till 77 or 78). My Dad was active till 63, my Uncle went to Nam. The Vietnam Era Soldiers and Airmen are always spoken of with many asterisks, some of the best...but many of the worst.

The guys I know who served before, during, and after the Nam era....none would March on their own family. I am rather sure ~30% would turn and shoot the ones who did! A man that would fight against his own family knows zero about duty and honor. I wouldn't go to battle with a man that would do that...and he wouldn't either...I'd have saw to that, one way or the other!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby billybud » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:17 pm

"Talk about nincompoopsih blatherskites" (I like that enough to borrow it, Donovan).

The finest fighting men on earth fought in the bloody Hill Fights of I Corps, the street to street combat of Hue, and the ambushes of the Ia Drang.

My blood is boiling so if I offend, so be it. I think that your characterization of Vietnam era fighting men is cartoonish, demeaning, and an insult. I challenge you to read about the Marines who fought the NVA in the hills near Khe Sanh...Murphy has a book called The Hill Fights.

I know that you are not very well educated about the fighting men in Vietnam, and as an Air Force vet, have not been exposed to the same training that a Marine rifle company gets, so go to the library. Read some accounts.

Try "Never Without Heroes...the Marine Third Recon Battalion in Vietnam"..or "The Hill Fights"

http://www.talkingproud.us/HistoryBreakerPatrol.html

These boys were men. Men who said "that's our job, and I pray that I'll never fail to do it".

If given a job to do, the Marines will say "aye, aye, sir" and lock and load. Just like the Marines went into South La in 1992 to quell the riots. They didn't say.."uhhh...all you black Marines, stand down". Those Marines who were black did their job. There was none of this wishy washy "against my brother" crap. Their brothers wore green.

And if so ordered, the military will maintain order.
Some light is so intense that it can only be experienced as darkness

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby donovan » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:32 pm

I let that post sit...but I am 100% in agreement with Billybud on this one. Your characterization of the Viet Nam Era Soldier is not only without one iota of fact, but an insult to brave men and women who fought a war without question and without reserve. I during my time, saw the price of freedom. I saw the casualties and cried at night when there was not more I could do to make those brave soldiers whole. I do not relive that war or my participation, but I would suggest you go to a VA Hospital and visit some of these veterans that are spoke of so lightly and flippantly. You too need to see with your eyes the price of freedom.

I do not believe your intentions were anything but honorable, but we are not talking football here, and yes, it is sensitive. Was that war and the necessity of it and how it was fought up for discussion, absolutely. Is the bravery and courage of those that fought it, absolutely not.
As I age it is hard to tell if I am inspired by reasoned passion or arthritic knees; most likely it is arthritic reasoning.

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby Derek » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:31 pm

What is the heart of our problem?? Why don't I let someone who knows better than any of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JhzZuumpok
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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby WoVeU » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:37 am

Derek wrote:What is the heart of our problem?? Why don't I let someone who knows better than any of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JhzZuumpok


Exxxxactly!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby WoVeU » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:38 am

Donovan and BB... what e u talking about?

I don't think I questioned what you have gleaned from my comments. Get your own dang facts. Walk your geriatric butts down to the recruiting offices. Tell them you are inquiring on some points before sending the 3 grandsons down.

Tell him to skip to the disqualifying questions...

1) Have they ever did drugs?
Ans) Yes, one has done a good deal of drugs?
--anything other than pot?
Ans) Yes.
--he is disqualified!
--The other 2 have no history?
Ans) No they have all smoked pot?
--More than 15 times or on the last 6 months?
Ans) Don't know.

2) All are high school graduates?

3) How are there finances?
--We run a credit check. And we run a financial competency screening...how much debt, income-to-debt ratio, total interest, etc.

4) We perform a criminal history. Most things above a misdemeanor are disqualifying. Enough misdemeanors are also DQ. Any outstanding citations currently?

Then do what many parents and GPs do...well it wasn't like that in my day? And see what the brother tells you!

Then ask him why the Military doesn't draft people for their war on terror? See if you might get a historical account on the determination by the DOD .

These are the things I said, you guys being so granola and grass-rootsy should gather your own evidence. Because when I said some of the best and some of the worst...this is how the worst got in. And it took the Military more than a decade after Vietnam to clean things up. And I sais all of that inthe first place to say you can't compare the Ideologies of the Era.

But I still stand on my opinion that neither Era would move on a mass of people moving for a separation. This isn't the kind of thing you pour out into the streets in violence, unless this is China or the USSR (which would prove some accusations I guess). You do it at the State Capital with ink and paper. If the Feds move into the States in a show of force..they wouldn't likely meet any opposition. The State might call out the NG and State Police, but the civilians and militias will go out the back door and go after uber-liberal targets. That is the big problem and chaos that I DO NOT wish to see. Smaller and lower powered groups don't meet force with force. (And they really haven't since Vietnam.) The incredibly sad part of this is they go after "mostly" every day people just trying to put bread on the table, and the aggressors don't feel any remorse because those people "are the real enemy" they think opposingly to our cause! That should be the fear...if enough common working folks get disenfranchised enough to act politically and peacefully...these militias and thug-gangs are going to cash in on an Armageddon they have been begging for for a long time. There are like 0.5 to 2 million of these people out there. And if the Feds move in, which I have to find to be the mistake and the lynch pin (from the earlier statements of BB.) Then this collection of people who are armed like Vietnam Soldiers, and less trained, and under no real rules will move on targets they have been salivating over for more than 20 years. And these people are in the backyards all over. With 35% of the military abroad on top of everything, and you then mobilize to the State Government complexes, even if to do no more than form a wall and build some kind of assurance of a single union. These guys are going to have a party! Then what ever State and Local authorities aren't at the Capitol buildings will try to respond...too late...then the riots and looting by the criminals who just plain wait any and every day for chaos to break out will have a party. Then those that fired the first shots, mortars, and bombs..will mostly slide back into the boon-docks and redress for the next mistake! And if the looting gets to my door...now we have the common already PO'd conservative citizen rolled up into this crap...and I ain't calling 911, I'm calling 10, 12, 20 and 9, 10, 38, 357, 44, 45 and then 30-30, 30-06, 308, 300, 444, 458! Those are my first responders, and 2nd, and 3rd....

What I am saying is the first response to a bunch of PO'd people shouldn't be the 101st Airborne! That won't be a move to legitimize the Constitution, at least not ours anyway...it won't go down like that! It will legitimize something else entirely! And that is what I am afraid of.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby billybud » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:35 pm

"Get my geriatric butt...etc?

I got two words for you. Merda Bubula.
Some light is so intense that it can only be experienced as darkness

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby Spence » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:42 pm

:lol: :lol: It doesn't sound any better that way. :lol: :lol:
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby billybud » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:43 pm

I thought it might slide past the mod.
Some light is so intense that it can only be experienced as darkness

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Re: Grumblings Grow Louder

Postby Spence » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:47 pm

billybud wrote:I thought it might slide past the mod.



More like "plop"
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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