More On The Big Scrape!

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WoVeU
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More On The Big Scrape!

Postby WoVeU » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:13 am

Well another year and another Tax filing.

The wife being gone for 2 months of last year helped, and buying a new car. (And I guess the Mortgage and property taxes helped too.) Yet I still paid 17.1k to the Feds.
Next year my wife's absence will keep 4 months of her income on the shelf so I should be able to pay about the same, maybe 18k.
The next year will get crazy with no car deduction and no mortgage. As I reviewed this years structure...at 3% lousy raises for the wife and I...23 to 24k. And that isn't even considering increasing Socialist give-aways. And of course I will still have 4k or more for property taxes and pay 8.25% sales tax on EVERYTHING we buy.

If we used this money wisely I wouldn't mind. And it isn't just the money going out in cash, medicaid-Tit 19, Day Care, Dental, and Food Stamps to the "needy." Just 60 to 70+ Billion per MONTH. http://www.dphhs.mt.gov/statisticalinformation/tanfstats/tanf012009/table1.pdf
Or HUD assistance, $45.8 Billion for the needy. http://www.ncsha.org/blog/senate-passed-fy-2010-hud-spending-bill-45b-over-fy-2009
Or the $45.4 Billion in SSI for 2009. http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ssir/SSI09/exec_sum.html

I mean that is not quite a Trillion $. Sure, we got that kind of cash!

And it is not even the HUGE $107 Trillion dollar (yeah trillion) shortfall in Medicaid and Social Security funding. (Which tells me the $11.2k we paid this year is gone money.)
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662

It is the other stuff on top of it.

The median income in the US. $45.3k...and everyone from there down qualifies for EIC (Earned Income Credit). But the amount is 43.3 (single) and 48.3k (married-filing-joint) for 3 kids and down from there to produce that mark. $88 Billion in 2003. http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metacrs7962/m1/ This would be up to at least $120 Bill this year...with more "education" on it being available and the levels going up greatly.

But people need it...
Case 1:
Female, age 40, divorced, 3 children
Wages: $19.7k
Child Support: $9.6k (her nor the payees pay any tax on.)
No Rent, Mortgage or Utilities
Children get free school lunch
Father buys 1/2 the clothes and pays allowances (Kids have computers, Ipods, Xbox, TVs, $70, $80, even $140 "Fully Logo'd" Sports Jerseys)
Big Plan for the $5,100 EIC + 100% tax return on the $1700 paid through the year, for a $6.8k total. Breast Implants! Life is hard people.

Case 2:
Male, age 35, married, 3 children, 1 income ( :wink: :wink: )
Wages: $33k (w/ much unemployment, 2.4k un-taxable and some other un-countables, supplementals)
Child Support: $1k a year (yeah, a man getting it! Some real winner women out there.)
Unemployment: 4 Months Annually + 1 Month cumulative of partial UE.
House Payment and Utilities: $750/mo.
Food Stamps: $700 for 4 months (UE)
Children get reduced school lunch.
Big Plans for the $4,100 EIC + 100% tax return for a $10k total....a new boat, a gun or 2, some electronics for the wifey! Life is just Har People!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby WoVeU » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:16 am

I just want to say that this just shows to me all of the Sun-Shiny hope we have out there! It is just wonderful, Utopia is coming hard and fast! Gee, ain't it swell Wally!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby Spence » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:15 pm

I understand the sentiment, but the anger should be pointed at the people who write the rules.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby WoVeU » Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:42 pm

Spence wrote:I understand the sentiment, but the anger should be pointed at the people who write the rules.


Oh it is! I know people! Locked doors keep honest people honest...open doors invite people in. Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day, teach a man to fish he will feed himself for a lifetime. Give a guy a handout and you will be feeding him for as long as you can extend your hand!!!

We have got so many of the basic principles of economics so far off track it is absolutely unbelievable. And the Libs will be back for more.

But hold on tight, China is already getting upset with some of our monetary dealings with their currency linked to ours for the foreseeable future (due to their debt ownership.) Wait till the Welfthcare really kicks in. First and second wave costs...and then teachers, city, county, state, military, and federal workers line up for a raise to reimburse for them settling for jobs with good benefits. Food isn't done inflating, and oil is beginning its return to form!

Hey, let's give some more money to Haiti!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby Spence » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:24 pm

I'm sad to admit that my generation - the boomers - has screwed this country up to point that it may not be able to be fixed. The Republicans and Democrats seem to be playing kick the can with our economic futures and both seem to be hoping they aren't the last one caught in the end. We are dangerously close to losing our AAA rating and no one seems to give a darn or we are too arrogant to think it can happen to us. It can and it will, unless we decide to fix this mess.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby WoVeU » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:49 pm

I think the best measure as to whether the US could recover from this is to plot the decline. And for several years I have found it to be unrecoverable...short of an act from God!

As for the Boomers, it is sad. You are talking about what was likely the most economically advantaged generation the US ever had (in real terms). Given we still lead the world in most every monetary and technological area that existed. But this was a generation of "revolution." Odd!!! College enrollment really began its expansion in the 60's and the promotion of "better jobs" through education. The push for kids to attend college sunk in and kids set "higher goals" as less sought out vocational, manufacturing, and skilled-labor positions. The US now has far, far, fewer of the latter jobs and a great many kids attending college to get jobs that (again in real terms) pay less than many of the "lower skilled" jobs that are now more and more rare. Odd!!! Some (most) of the most educated and introspective men I have met are Baby Boomers, these people can speak quite eloquently and with great detail on the theoretical points of the social sciences. But these same individuals seem lost, disjointed, and outraged when you ask them to explain empirical data reflecting the state of our current society resulting from this 40 year expansion in "liberal" thinking. Odd!!! When asked how do you create laws and structures on labor, industry, and non-linear tax structures that effect supply and demand curves for human resources and company profits without effecting the Supply and Demand curve...you usually get some answer like, "it will adjust, realign"...yeah, exactly! (Stupid.) The far left has long stood under the umbrella of Liberalism. And today when more than 3 left-wingers share the same air for more than 26 minutes, 10 new laws are born! Odd!!!

The real problem in those green tinted 60's minds is the inability to understand that human economics and existence is uplifted by the entire curve shift in human ability and technology. And that attempts to flatten or redraw the curve and distribution among its constituents by constructing artificial lines and barriers suppresses every natural mechanism that keeps the entire curve growing.

Something was subtly lost years ago. Truly Liberal men who worked at the grass roots level to help those with less, with their helping hands, with encouragement, mentoring, and teaching....looked and pondered on doing more of this. But someone inferred (not hard a tall) that this would be best done by taking this effort higher, in government, its policy, and law. They attempted to do MORE by taking it to a higher level rather than committing to broadening the sewing and bringing more reapers into the field! And after their personnel witness to the effect of empowering and helping, it became impossible to tell them their plans would not work, impossible to tell them, "you are not helping!". And the results seemingly witnessed form the New Deal which preceded much growth. (Yet no one considered how very singular of a multiplicative bad position the US was in. We needed something to give assurance, but we exploited and leveraged cheap labor on dangerous and huge projects that brought in huge capabilities and infrastructure...a point often missed. Also, SS by design was not a bad thing, just a very broad retirement plan.) But something should have clicked coming out of the 60's somewhere that it is impossible to truly create allowances through the increase of requirements! (I think it had to be done for women and people of color...sadly.) But it just kept going after that... like a machine! Something should have clicked with somebody, that maybe we shouldn't tell everyone that labor and simpler jobs had no value (this was and is always done from about 4th grade up). But tomorrow will bring new laws, less jobs, more pomp, more wind, more "free" and more "we". Tomorrow, many small businesses will go under, another trashy L.L.C. will close down one name and start another, many personal bankruptcies will be filed, many kids will get one day closer to a BA degree, and they can't do Algebra for spit. But in a recent yesterday...the same day we stepped behind the Aluminum Curtain...school loans became the property of the Federal Government...so we could further feed the lying machine. Tomorrow more laws will be written, but hearts, minds, and ethics will go unchanged! And the beat goes on...
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby billybud » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:50 pm

Well...I just mailed off a check to Uncle for $10,665 as the difference that I owed from what I had payed...sad money.
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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby Spence » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:26 pm

billybud wrote:Well...I just mailed off a check to Uncle for $10,665 as the difference that I owed from what I had payed...sad money.



It isn't going to get better either. If that number is under the 10% rule for estimated reporting, you have a pretty healthy tax bill. Pretty good for a retired guy. :wink:
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby billybud » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:00 pm

Spence..it is decent but not what you think.

I guess I just do not have enough taken out from my various incomes...(although retired, I am still on a payroll PT as a consultant). I haven't touched any investment revenue in years because I do not want to pay the gains tax when I don't really need the money yet. Besides, my portfolio is recovering little by little...I have no realized loss until I sell...the last two years, paper losses have been disappearing off the ledger.
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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby Spence » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:42 pm

billybud wrote:Spence..it is decent but not what you think.

I guess I just do not have enough taken out from my various incomes...(although retired, I am still on a payroll PT as a consultant). I haven't touched any investment revenue in years because I do not want to pay the gains tax when I don't really need the money yet. Besides, my portfolio is recovering little by little...I have no realized loss until I sell...the last two years, paper losses have been disappearing off the ledger.



Tell me about it. Mine are close to all the way back though. My accountant always told me that I can't under report my estimated more then 10% without getting hit with a penalty. That was my basis for the statement. I really don't understand most of the tax guidelines, I just do what they tell me. It doesn't look to me that the Cap gains tax is going to go down anytime soon, so I guess we are stuck there. :roll:
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby WoVeU » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:45 pm

I am no big money lover...but that walk to the mail box might have pulled a few tears! :cry:

How many cars have you bought that cost less than that? I think 7 for me, 1 about that even, and 1 just a few hundred more.

Spence wrote:
billybud wrote:Well...I just mailed off a check to Uncle for $10,665 as the difference that I owed from what I had payed...sad money.



It isn't going to get better either. If that number is under the 10% rule for estimated reporting, you have a pretty healthy tax bill. Pretty good for a retired guy. :wink:


That was the first thing I wondered...if BB fell short enough for the penalty flag!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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WoVeU
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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby WoVeU » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:08 pm

Spence wrote:
billybud wrote:Spence..it is decent but not what you think.

I guess I just do not have enough taken out from my various incomes...(although retired, I am still on a payroll PT as a consultant). I haven't touched any investment revenue in years because I do not want to pay the gains tax when I don't really need the money yet. Besides, my portfolio is recovering little by little...I have no realized loss until I sell...the last two years, paper losses have been disappearing off the ledger.



Tell me about it. Mine are close to all the way back though. My accountant always told me that I can't under report my estimated more then 10% without getting hit with a penalty. That was my basis for the statement. I really don't understand most of the tax guidelines, I just do what they tell me. It doesn't look to me that the Cap gains tax is going to go down anytime soon, so I guess we are stuck there. :roll:


I really don't understand most of the tax guidelines
This is the insult on top of the injury. It gets worse all of the time! I must have had 10 or 12 hours in those beeping Federal Taxes. Ours are goofy...and I always check...and this year, itemizing was several grand more for me. Then I looked through many other things.

At this point I'd take a Flat National Sales Tax that included giving some get out of tax free, and reduced tax for others...well and I guess one that they give you many things for free or hand you cash when you check out....if they insist on it. I mean if I as getting equally scraped without the wasted time and lamenting the season I'd feel better!

And while "They" are at it...how bout I get all my insurance cards, registration, driver's license, plate, inspection sticker, hunting, fishing, trapping, weapon's, and pilot's license all at one time for a whole 5, 8, or 10 year period. That would save me a lot of time as well and we can drop the ruse of the gubment performing a function!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby Spence » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:13 pm

I have never done my own taxes. I try to find out what would benefit me the most and work toward that goal, but in the end, I have to rely on someone to do it for me. If the expantion we have planned for next year blows up in my face, my taxes should get a lot less complicated. :lol:
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby donovan » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:43 am

I think there are several simple solutions to the taxation problem in the US. It seems to me that the problem is all of the multiple taxes. What that does is hide the total amount of taxes we pay. Nobody has a clue of how many taxes they pay. You may know on your Federal Income, but what about the sales taxes, VAT, sin taxes...goes on and on.

One solution is a unitary tax. That would generally be a National sales tax or a flat rate income tax. Take the cost of government and come up with a percentage. There is one reason we do not do this...revolution...because that is exactly what would happen when the sales tax had to be 28 percent. (I actually favor the income because I think it is unfair to make business the tax collector)

Withholding tax is a great cover up. The employer pays you a hundred bucks but writes the check for 75...less taxes. You tell everyone you make 75 bucks..when in essence you made 100...but..the employer now has to write another 10 percent to the government for his portion. So in the end the employer pays you 110 bucks you think your are making 75. You think this is unintentional...

JR Simplot..the codger, now dead, one time set up tables to illustrate this point....gave the employees their hundred bucks..next table they had to give back some for SS..next table..some for Fed tax...then Worker Comp..etc.....He advertised he was going to do this.....the Feds came in with an injunction to stop him...

How about people having to pay tax on their Social Security that is already taxed?

This is what really bothers me this week...is the tragedy in Virginia....and on this subject...why should coal miners in Virgina risk their lives to pay taxes so a bunch of tree hugging granola bourgeoisie Seattlites can have a Mono rail that goes three miles. Disgusting.
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Re: More On The Big Scrape!

Postby Spence » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:47 am

What that does is hide the total amount of taxes we pay. Nobody has a clue of how many taxes they pay.


That is so true. If people knew how much tax is built in to what they pay for goods and services, over and above the stuff they no about, they would really understand how this government works. The hidden taxes, billed as getting back at the corporations, are completely paid by every single person that buys their product or uses their services. When ATT takes a billion dollar charge for retiree health insurance - we all will pay that. Every company that is large enough will be passing that cost on to us.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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