US Military Base Shooting...

A place to talk about anything. Stocks, politics, or your neighbors who won't turn down that music.
Forum rules
NOTICE: Please be sure to check the CFP Message Board Rules and Regulations and the Read Me page before posting.
User avatar
donovan
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 8035
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:41 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby donovan » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:48 am

That is certainly, I am not sure this is a good idea or not, the type of things that have to be evaluated. Like you, I will relent to registration, etc, but not willing to give up control.

I have a hard time with this because I do not want to give up any freedoms, but know it may be required.
Andy, Barney, Aunt Bea, Helen, Ellie, Peggy, or Thelma Lou, Gomer, Goober, Howard and even Ernest T. Bass were all single. Only Otis was married and he stayed drunk all the time.

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:37 am

Giving up my guns is something that is scary to me. Police, at about a 99.8% perform clean up duty. The protection they provide by deterrence is less then adequate. I know I have know will or want to hurt any innocent person, and I have the skill and emotional capacity to properly and safely use my guns. I also feel that going through another persons door when not knowing is on the other side is not an easy thing. Knowing a gun could be there or is even likely to be there, I feel, is a rather effective deterrent.

And this falls in the same area of government providing something the people should be applying for themselves. Grass roots "don't tread on me" can't be beaten by governmental protection of any form.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 19016
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Spence » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:43 am

WoVeU wrote:Giving up my guns is something that is scary to me. Police, at about a 99.8% perform clean up duty. The protection they provide by deterrence is less then adequate. I know I have know will or want to hurt any innocent person, and I have the skill and emotional capacity to properly and safely use my guns. I also feel that going through another persons door when not knowing is on the other side is not an easy thing. Knowing a gun could be there or is even likely to be there, I feel, is a rather effective deterrent.

And this falls in the same area of government providing something the people should be applying for themselves. Grass roots "don't tread on me" can't be beaten by governmental protection of any form.



The second amendment is the thing that protects us from an unruly government. That can never change. The first and second amendment are the basis for our freedoms and how to keep them.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:18 pm

The problem is the folks in Congress have gotten just about all-pro at bending the Constitution over near backwards rather than overtly throw it out. And the Supreme Court has redefined things and adopted precedence to change much o the common sense and standards that founded this country. We didn't get to where we are today by big sweeping changes...they nickled and dimed the role of government and the rights and obligations of "we the people" to death. We are pretty much at game, set, match.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Derek
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:04 am
Location: Brooks, GA
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Derek » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:27 pm

WoVeU wrote:The problem is the folks in Congress have gotten just about all-pro at bending the Constitution over near backwards rather than overtly throw it out. And the Supreme Court has redefined things and adopted precedence to change much o the common sense and standards that founded this country. We didn't get to where we are today by big sweeping changes...they nickled and dimed the role of government and the rights and obligations of "we the people" to death. We are pretty much at game, set, match.


Yes. I think the 230 year mistake (as Andy Stern calls it) is about to come to an end. Andy Stern is an advisor to obama and is President of SEIU.
Last edited by Derek on Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

- John Madden

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:48 pm

Anybody know where I can buy some light artillery? Or not so light?

What is the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can buy? It takes way too long to cook this 3% stuff down.

Good new is I have found pure potassium, magnesium, and other elements in pure form. Man they are expensive!
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 19016
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Spence » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:53 pm

WoVeU wrote:Anybody know where I can buy some light artillery? Or not so light?

What is the highest concentration of hydrogen peroxide you can buy? It takes way too long to cook this 3% stuff down.

Good new is I have found pure potassium, magnesium, and other elements in pure form. Man they are expensive!


Better be careful posting like that, the man will be at your back door in the morning. :wink:
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:35 am

Eric wrote:Here's an interesting video I stumbled across that relates to our discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTnbtSvjAQc&feature=related

Sorry, I know everybody but Billybud might cringe at the producer of this documentary :lol:


Anybody watch my video? :(

Looks like it got lost at the bottom of page 6, so I thought I'd repost it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTnbtSvjAQc&feature=related
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:52 am

Eric wrote:
Eric wrote:Here's an interesting video I stumbled across that relates to our discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTnbtSvjAQc&feature=related

Sorry, I know everybody but Billybud might cringe at the producer of this documentary :lol:


Anybody watch my video? :(

Looks like it got lost at the bottom of page 6, so I thought I'd repost it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTnbtSvjAQc&feature=related


I saw it. I can't stand that guy. He likes stirring the pot and never dumps in any meat. Guys like him create more problems than they resolve, and I don't find it incidental. He is one of those atheists that cracks me up. He holds his atheism so high, it is his god. And he serves his day and night. He is a radical atheist.

I love his science will explain it all one day comments.

Hers is the real problem with these elitist clowns. At some point when you look at the vast history of humans believing in God and you look at those alive and practicing faith today and also look at the commonality they so oft like to point at in some form of derision...they might consider:

If their is no God, then there truly is a common element buried within man and his books on God or gods and the requirements and duties ascribed to mankind thereby are a deep human psychological and sociological study and reflection. This then is still as real and just as powerful (at least) as science or God. And it is something man is as equally bound to as science and exploration. As equally bound to as love, hate, fear, want, hope, honor, propriety, and every human emotion and goal we ascribe to. In effect there is still a God and he, she, or it is as equally alive as the single living being. God then is the innate spirit of man, and not the reflected spirit. Therefore God remains from everlasting to everlasting...in the scope of man. While this envelopes the everlasting to the survival of man and as it effects man the difference is not, mute, and only lies in semantics. Then what do we have. Do we point to anti-corollaries and place emphasis on those, the atheists, and count these as the exception to the God rules. Well those arguments hold up about 5 seconds in the court of discourse and the study of what accounts for a god. They believe in their science-god, culture-god, the ascent of man god, and the biggest little "g" god of all...the self-god. The closest thing to a person with no god, is one who believes in some god, and finds the religions confusing and confounding, and sets for themselves the most minimalist of moral codes and doesn't behave in anti-religion, anti-god, anti-law, anti-cultural manner. These don't hold up in discourse either as the people who are or could be found to be anywhere near this will soon self-analyze and find similar statements, communicate similar statements, and then seek to prove similar statements and adhere to these...then they too have a god. Welcome to humanity, you can run but you can't hide. You bow your way and I'll bow mine! The big difference is they have no book and they can constantly create and re-legislate, they get to always be right in some form in every act they do every day, they get to have optimum pride, and wavering accountability. If these attributes sound familiar...well...they should. This is pretty much what we have seen play out in politics and culture and especially in their leadership and you get what we have here. Leadership without a real platform, no sentinel, no cemented direction. And the result is as violent as any religious war. It creates a war in the form of every daily task and social function being debated, agitated, retrofitted, appended, and bent. The fabric of known structure is gone and everything is subject to critique and non-adherence. The battles exist in everything we try to get done in society, everything is on the table and everyone is right. Degeneration ensues because leadership belongs to he who screams the loudest, who made the most temporary alliances, and who polished his little gods up that morning and told the next guy how much his little gods looked like his own...until the next big idea and the next temporary alliance to invoke change on the agitated and never settling system. What we are left with as a society is no society at all. Just a remnant structure that currently has a plethora of tribes existing on the eroding remains. We draw more near everyday...man leading man, leading man, leading man on no real path to anywhere. New and daily inventions (not in his tooling and technology) but in his manner, methods, ways, and means, a new idea, change, and change for the sake of change...because the little man with his little gods...still has his biggest hope in being different...being unique. He can fix anything you can not concretely prove to be operative or broken in the court of discourse. If you thought a global society was impaired because of 4 to 10 gods. Tell me how you like it when we have 30 million gods. So all the men with the little gods can giggle and sneer at the Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims for their talk of The End and rant on how their is none. And yet they are all very much correct. The End draweth nigh and her birth pangs echo from the mountains. The cry of peace still beckons to the masses and the diseases and disasters are loosed! An end is an end, from within or from without is of little matter, the source could only be observed from a position man can not sit in, that from afar and from above.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:45 pm

I totally disagree with everything you just said. :D

Science is not a "God" per se, it's a rigorous set of codes that involves examining actual things that can be tested in reality. The issue with trying to prove religion is that there is no logical reason to do so. There's a self-sustaining circular logic when trying to prove that there is a God or that "you've got to have faith." You set up a program where it's a virtue to believe things that are hard to believe and work from there; dissent or logic is frowned upon on in this arena. Why do people believe what they do? Usually because it can be proven, but religion just can't.

And atheists can definitely be "moral". They make up a lower percentage of prison inmates than religious people relative to their population. Often times the only difference between an atheist and a theist is the fact that they don't believe in a God. They still believe in the Golden Rule, rule of law, do not kill others, etc. Humanity would be in a very, very sad state if they needed the threat of eternal darn to keep them from killing, raping, and abusing others. Why is not believing in a certain God a worse thing than murder? One you pay for eternally, the other you only get locked up for the rest of your life (a finite amount of time). We should ask these questions instead of blindly accepting whatever an ancient book tells you. The ancient book may be right for all I know, I don't pretend to have the answers or anything of that sort, but as it stands, it can't be tested.

Science is objective reality. And as long as we don't blow each other up, we will find the secrets to life someday. 400 years ago we thought the earth revolved around the sun and we burned witches for destroying crops. Now we can put a man on the moon and create a reactor that simulates the amount of energy given off from the sun. It's astounding, people using logic will ultimately solve these puzzles.
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:18 pm

See what I mean! :D Did you light candles?

Newsflash, the earth does revolve around he Sun!

BTW, why is it so many atheist are little squirrely fellows. Most of whom couldn't survive without the existence of society and the advent of specialization and BS jobs???

Why is not believing in a certain God a worse thing than murder?
A know neither where this comes from or where it is going?

I don't personally know anyone who accepts an ancient book blindly.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:25 pm

Sorry, I flipped that around. Should certainly be the "sun revolved around the earth" :D

The point being that God will send you to hell forever if you don't believe that he created the universe and that Jesus died for our sins. How is that just punishment? You could be Mother Teresa (who did indeed express doubt), not believe in God, and go to hell for it. Really makes no sense if you think about it and should be considered petty.
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:29 pm

WoVeU wrote:
Why is not believing in a certain God a worse thing than murder?
A know neither where this comes from or where it is going?

I don't personally know anyone who accepts an ancient book blindly.


Look, "moderation" is still founded in the flimsy arguments that fundamentalism is. What worse at least from a philosophical perspective and not in the actual dangers caused by fundamentalism, is what it basically boils down to is apologetic cherry-picking. I think Christians are very good people and they would never do some of the things that God advocates in the Old Testament. Whether or not Christ changed all of that, it was still advocated by God at some point in time (plus Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it).
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:54 pm

Eric wrote:Sorry, I flipped that around. Should certainly be the "sun revolved around the earth" :D

The point being that God will send you to hell forever if you don't believe that he created the universe and that Jesus died for our sins. How is that just punishment? You could be Mother Teresa (who did indeed express doubt), not believe in God, and go to hell for it. Really makes no sense if you think about it and should be considered petty.


There are certain things I will not tell non-Believers...but I can tell you have never read all of Paul's Epistles at least not very closely. But, many "Christians" haven't either. Jesus said, "No one goes to the Father but by me." And then you also have,

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Ok you hear much talk, and I love how people really argue about Christians and not Christ. Now he never says a man is condemned to Hell if he believes not in Christ. It doesn't say that. And Chris put it like he put it for a reason, IMO. Nothing is as Black and White as people tell it, the Old and the New have much gray. This is but another reason we are not qualified to judge. Anyway, read 17, 18, and 19. The condemnation here is quite elegant, and was here before he got here. (But you still won't get it.)
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:59 pm

Does Matthew 13:50 ring a bell? Cherry picking.... :?

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Jesus certainly speaks of hell as a place of eternal "darn"nation (due to the word censor :D ). Remember the bit about losing a limb or an eye is better than burning for the rest of your life?
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27


Return to “Off-Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest