US Military Base Shooting...

A place to talk about anything. Stocks, politics, or your neighbors who won't turn down that music.
Forum rules
NOTICE: Please be sure to check the CFP Message Board Rules and Regulations and the Read Me page before posting.
billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 9928
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby billybud » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:18 pm

Trust is earned, not given by fear of reprise or calls of bigotry or racism. I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorist....but I am saying I don't trust you until you prove that you are not one of those 10 million people that want Sharia law in this country.


Don't you see how they, like you, distrust a group of people who aggressively proslytize their brand of religion, who openly state that they want to export their culture and form of government...who occupie their lands.
Some light is so intense that it can only be experienced as darkness

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 19078
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Spence » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:24 pm

You're right, it is the same. Racism, more culturalism keeps groups of people from being peaceful. These guys, in their mind are soldiers of their religion and their way of life - patriots. That doesn't include the leaders. Leaders of all countries use this to advance their power grab.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

User avatar
Dossenator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Back in NW Arkansas!!!!
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Dossenator » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:37 pm

Derek...I think that number is far higher than 10 million. Their book...the Koran...teaches that all nations must be ruled by Muslims (ALL NATIONS). And that if anyone resists they are to use the sword to accomplish their goals. This is their teachings...the non radical Muslim's use the same book.

We as Americans, are naive, if we don't see that the Islamic world is wanting to take over...again their book tells them that is what they are suppossed to do. Do I believe that all Muslims want to kill me...or have the capacity to kill me...NO. However, it is alarming how many of them are sympethetic to terrorism (I guess they see it as a means to an end to acheive their goal of world domination). Their book and teachings are why I have problems with the Islamic faith (also how they treat their Women). I understand that the beliefs of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Athiest, Mormons, Scientologist, etc, etc, etc are not without flaws....but these belief systems do not teach to take over the whole world by using deadly force if others oppose them.
"A team with something to play for is dangerous, but a team with someone to play for is unstoppable..." Arkansas OL Brey Cook quote following the death of teammate Garrett Uekman (Nov. 2011).

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:44 pm

It's true that a good deal of Muslims, while not terrorists, are sympathetic or passive towards terrorism. Or at least they "understand". But I don't think you paint them all with the same brush. If you check out some of Gallup's polls about this subject, there are a lot of things that contradict the average American's view of the Muslim populous.
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
Dossenator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Back in NW Arkansas!!!!
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Dossenator » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:52 pm

So, the non-terriost Muslims don't believe what the Koran teaches them? Then are they Muslims? In recent years I have read several books about Islam...some written by Muslims and some written by observers....and all it did was to scare me even more about this religion and their intent. I think too many Americans don't understand or completely underestimate what the Islamic faith wants to acheive and how they will stop at no cost to acheive it.
"A team with something to play for is dangerous, but a team with someone to play for is unstoppable..." Arkansas OL Brey Cook quote following the death of teammate Garrett Uekman (Nov. 2011).

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:58 pm

Dossenator wrote:So, the non-terriost Muslims don't believe what the Koran teaches them? Then are they Muslims? In recent years I have read several books about Islam...some written by Muslims and some written by observers....and all it did was to scare me even more about this religion and their intent. I think too many Americans don't understand or completely underestimate what the Islamic faith wants to acheive and how they will stop at no cost to acheive it.


Look, I hate to downplay the danger or the threat because every attack is one too much, but if this was a worldwide phenomenon, you think we'd suffer more attacks than we have? I mean the U.S.S. Cole and the World Trade Center bombing and 9/11 and the Madrid Bombings and the Ft. Hood Shootings were all terrible, but if all 1 billion Muslims had the drive to destroy the U.S., they'd take more action by now.

And yes, they consider themselves to be Muslims. I think it might be hypocritical, but not all Jewish or Christian people follow Leviticus, unless you want to stone gay people :shock:
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
Dossenator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5186
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Back in NW Arkansas!!!!
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Dossenator » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:20 pm

Eric wrote:
Dossenator wrote:So, the non-terriost Muslims don't believe what the Koran teaches them? Then are they Muslims? In recent years I have read several books about Islam...some written by Muslims and some written by observers....and all it did was to scare me even more about this religion and their intent. I think too many Americans don't understand or completely underestimate what the Islamic faith wants to acheive and how they will stop at no cost to acheive it.


Look, I hate to downplay the danger or the threat because every attack is one too much, but if this was a worldwide phenomenon, you think we'd suffer more attacks than we have? I mean the U.S.S. Cole and the World Trade Center bombing and 9/11 and the Madrid Bombings and the Ft. Hood Shootings were all terrible, but if all 1 billion Muslims had the drive to destroy the U.S., they'd take more action by now.

And yes, they consider themselves to be Muslims. I think it might be hypocritical, but not all Jewish or Christian people follow Leviticus, unless you want to stone gay people :shock:


I can't speak about Jews...but Leviticus is in the Old Testament and illustates the old laws...before Christ. The sacrificial system, etc that were changed when Jesus entered with his teachings.

I think Muslims are too busy blowing each other up in the Middle East right now...as they spread all over the world we will see more and more of what happens on a daily basis in the Middle East. I hope it never comes to a point where we Americans have to fear going to the grocery store because Islamic suicide bombers become a daily occurence.

I will pass along the titles of the books I have read about the Koran (it's been a couple of years since I last read one). The Koran does not teach to love one another....it teaches hatred. Hatred for those who do not follow the teaches of Islam. And not just once...but many, many, many times. I know I have said it many times...but the main purpose of the Koran is to teach it's followers that they must rule the world...by the sword if necessary.
"A team with something to play for is dangerous, but a team with someone to play for is unstoppable..." Arkansas OL Brey Cook quote following the death of teammate Garrett Uekman (Nov. 2011).

User avatar
Derek
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 5473
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:04 am
Location: Brooks, GA
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Derek » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:37 pm

billybud wrote:
Trust is earned, not given by fear of reprise or calls of bigotry or racism. I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorist....but I am saying I don't trust you until you prove that you are not one of those 10 million people that want Sharia law in this country.


Don't you see how they, like you, distrust a group of people who aggressively proslytize their brand of religion, who openly state that they want to export their culture and form of government...who occupie their lands.


And let me guess the religion that is aggressively proselytize their faith...... :roll: :roll:

The first World trade center bombing, Bin Laden declaring war, the USS Cole were all in response to 9/11...I know that...wait....

They don't "hate" us for the reasons you think they do. Read up on the 12th Imam. They are not "defending" themselves or their land.

It troubles me that you have a problem distinguishing Christians from these killers. And that your statements...at their core..imply that WE are the problem.
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.

- John Madden

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:05 pm

I think I know why they "hate" us and it doesn't have to do with neoconservative foreign intervention or "our freedom". It has to do with an intolerant worldview of a particular brand of Islam who basically has a grudge against Israel and the West because of perceived wrongdoings exploited by a Middle East media that spreads propaganda. Fair enough?

I'm aware of the West's activity and the actions they have taken in the Middle East (I don't entirely support them, for the record). It is not a very educated part of the world, so I think the fears and biases are exploited by the media and clergy that teach them to hate. Those particular Muslims are definitely bigoted and misogynist, so there's no getting around that.
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:15 pm

Eric wrote:I think I know why they "hate" us and it doesn't have to do with neoconservative foreign intervention or "our freedom". It has to do with an intolerant worldview of a particular brand of Islam who basically has a grudge against Israel and the West because of perceived wrongdoings exploited by a Middle East media that spreads propaganda. Fair enough?

I'm aware of the West's activity and the actions they have taken in the Middle East (I don't entirely support them, for the record). It is not a very educated part of the world, so I think the fears and biases are exploited by the media and clergy that teach them to hate. Those particular Muslims are definitely bigoted and misogynist, so there's no getting around that.


Speaking of a broad brush...you can't paint the entire Middle East with that broad of a brush. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and UAE are very affluent and education like, many freedoms, abound. Saudi Arabia is more conservative than the others.

But I know for a fact that Doss is telling you facts on the Koran. I have read it. I was raised by Christian parents but didn't get a lot of lecture from them and rarely ever graced the doors of a church (and I watched much of the family in much discourse and argument over Biblical interpretation). I was 17 when I became a Christian. And I feel I have put my Christianity to the test, looked and read everywhere to see what others said and if they somehow may make a better point. (And took close examination of Christian, Denomination, and "Church" interpretations.) I can tell you the Koran doesn't make a better point at all. (It surprised me how awkwardly it read and handled many things being a sister religion with Christianity and Judaism.) I read the Koran, the Ghitas, the Analects, and studied atheist precepts and agnostic views. Nothing leaves you shaking your head like the Koran, some really good parts...but others, wow, sad!

Outside of really free living Islamic people who take some parts of the Koran with a grain of salt. (Where they consider putting the Infidels to the sword as the old world way for the initial spread of Islam in a predominantly heathen and violent world. Some consider the infidel as to mean heathen only. Others that pay little head to the daily Jihad we see just aren't that "religious" in practice...they ave them too.) But I am rather sure a majority of Muslims of lesser developed countries either back the terrorists or are sympathetic to the cause. Those primarily being the countries with Islam being the majority of people and surround Israel (about 1.2 Billion people) from Somalia and Morocco all the way to Pakistan. It is probably understated that a few don't want terrorism and really don't want us in their country either. Others are really just trying to keep up a world view of being against Terror...and do this only as a tool for long term support of Jihad. Lying is just fine when it comes to Jihad.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:26 pm

There are definitely educated parts of the Middle East. I know Osama came from a rich family. But they are somewhat few and far between. Saudi Arabia has given America problems, but the UAE, Qatar, and Kuwait are the countries that give us the least problem.
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 9928
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby billybud » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:02 pm

Derek...it troubles me that you seem to be condemning one billion people because of a minority of zealots.

Sure, we are at war with terrorists. We are not at war with islam. Al Queda and 9/11, when you get down to it, involved less than 30 people. Sure these guys want to kill us, but it is a major stretch to say all islam wants to kill us. They do want to preserve their culture and religion and they do fear western intent. While we may not want our country ruled by sharia, they also might feel that americans are pushing democracy throughout the region and the liberal excess (to a conservative culture) that may accompany this change. As we resist the "islamification" of the world, they resist the americanization of the world.


It troubles me that you have a problem distinguishing Christians from these killers. And that your statements...at their core..imply that WE are the problem.


And it troubles me that you mistate my thinking and that you don't think that we are part of the problem.
Some light is so intense that it can only be experienced as darkness

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:11 pm

The one thing I know is these radicals are big on commitment and they have enough supporters and plenty enough who lack much faith in our Governments words. And I am sure there are plenty who are just thinking, "WTF!"

We should just leave the whole area alone if you can't fight on some kind of front. If good intelligence finds a caravan of any group of terrorists...apply drones and missiles. Stand guard at home and develop green energy, cleaner coal, and drill new oil wells.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:51 am

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby Eric » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:16 pm

WoVeU wrote:The one thing I know is these radicals are big on commitment and they have enough supporters and plenty enough who lack much faith in our Governments words. And I am sure there are plenty who are just thinking, "WTF!"

We should just leave the whole area alone if you can't fight on some kind of front. If good intelligence finds a caravan of any group of terrorists...apply drones and missiles. Stand guard at home and develop green energy, cleaner coal, and drill new oil wells.


I second that. Work a reasonable solution to ween control of Afghanistan and Iraq to the locals and then just leave. It's not our job to be the world's police.
Running bowl/MSU/OSU record '05-present: 9-27

User avatar
WoVeU
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Location: New Braunfels, Texas
Contact:

Re: US Military Base Shooting...

Postby WoVeU » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:33 pm

Speaking of that, "World Police." A term I have used many times. You'd have to think playing World Police would glean you much popularity around the globe!

I ain't a big fan of the police. The men and women are OK but I don't like their mission. Cause when Johnny Law shows up in my life he is giving me a ticket. And 85% of the time they show them on TV they are arresting people that will likely never be of any concern or threat to me!

If we are looked at like that...that ain't good.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
R. Reagan


Return to “Off-Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest