US Military Base Shooting...

[billybud]

After BB's post that turned an anti-PC argument into a Communist Bronze Sculpture

Communist? McCarthy would have loved you on his committee. So, If someone differs in opinion, than he must be a communist.

And, like McCarthy and the old HUAC, you probably see anyone that doesn't march with right wing boots as being a communist.

[WoVeU]

I just think Communist when the answers are always: communal resourcing, baring others up by requirement, redistribution of resources, and the government running of everything.

It is what it is...it is not my fault most people think of the Sickle and Hammer form every time somebody says communism. In fact, the old iron curtain was a very pathetic form. More of a Party of Socialist Dictatorship.

[Derek]

I could almost hear the strains of "Onward Christian Soldiers" as martial music playing in the background. The hair on the back of my neck stood up.

Ah Americans! At least we are consistant.

Yep, we did throw japanese americans into camps when we were at war with the japanese. They might have been sympathetic to the japanese cause and do untold damage. And, they were "Japs", weren't they?. We didn't do so with our good german american citizens although we were at war with germans. They were more "like us"...just good Christian lads who just happened to be german in origin.

Absolutely...we must identify and separate muslims...maybe laws can be passed to demand that they wear an identifier on their clothing (maybe a yellow star or something), maybe forbid their entry into the military. Why stop there? After all, all muslims are out to destroy us.

We need a Goebbels like anti muslim media campaign...maybe some of those Nazi anti jewish posters could be recycled with a change in art.

Glad to see you take them lightly.

[Derek]

After BB's post that turned an anti-PC argument into a Communist Bronze Sculpture

Communist? McCarthy would have loved you on his committee. So, If someone differs in opinion, than he must be a communist.

And, like McCarthy and the old HUAC, you probably see anyone that doesn't march with right wing boots as being a communist.

That's a silly analogy.

[Derek]

I just think Communist when the answers are always: communal resourcing, baring others up by requirement, redistribution of resources, and the government running of everything.

I agree. I don't care how it's received. If you believe in these things, you are at odds with the founding fathers.

[Eric]

Man, I just really don't see that at all, Billybud. Where are you getting this from? This is not 1941. Is it wrong for Americans to notice that most terrorists with an axe to grind against this country are Muslim? As long as we don't mistake that with "all Muslims are terrorists" and feel the need to discriminate, that's just using your brain and not being racially insensitive.

I think people who murder abortion-doctors are most likely to be Christian fanatics. I think people of Arab origin who shoot American soldiers (at Ft. Hood and the shootings that happened I think over this summer) are mostly likely indoctrinated by fanatical Muslim teaching. It may not happen every other day, but it's a smart observation. Doesn't take a rocket scientist.

[billybud]

That's it exactly, Eric...as LONG AS YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SOME TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM BUT MUSLIMS AS A PEOPLE AREN"T TERRORISTS.

That was our failure when we didn't differentiate between japanese americans and japanese combatants in WWII.

[Spence]

That's it exactly, Eric...as LONG AS YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SOME TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM BUT MUSLIMS AS A PEOPLE AREN"T TERRORISTS.

That was our failure when we didn't differentiate between japanese americans and japanese combatants in WWII.

Exactly. It is the individual not the race or even nationality.

[donovan]

What we do in this country now, with most every issue, is define the problem so there is no solution. There are many problems in the United States that need fixing. Crime, Terrorism, Healthcare, Economics, the BCS are just a few.

What we can not continue to do is bring in every variable that we can think of because if we do, there can never be a solution. So we just continue to allow this problems to escalate.

We all give us a modicum or more, of individual freedom for the greater good. The basic idea old idea of my freedom stops at the end of your nose. My roommate in undergraduate school was born in an interment camp in Southern Utah. He was Japanese. His family were truck farmers, very successful and their land and possessions were confiscated and they lived in the camp for the duration of the WWII. Teaching German in schools was outlawed in many schools during the WWII. This is way over the bounds of sanity.

We need to learn from history. Any terrorist is a threat be it Muslim, Christian, KKK, John Birch, Chicago Seven, Floridians, PETA, etc. What we have not been willing to do is prosecute the perceived threats from these groups. And who makes that decision, politicians. Perceived threats are against the law and should be decided by the courts and a jury of peers.

Few terrorists take us by surprise. There seemingly was ample evidence in the Ft Hood case. White Supremacists are very vocal. The Black Panthers were not quiet.

I use the example of the right to bear arms, but if my neighbor starts waving a shotgun around in his front yard, loaded or not, he can not do that. This is a perceived threat and he must stop. When people make veiled threats, it is not always protected by free speech. The courts have been clear on that.

We have more homeland security people now than ever. I had to dump some after shave lotion because it was more than 3 ounces. I am OK with that. What I am not OK with is religion or political beliefs being used a justification for the infringement of others rights.

[Eric]

That's it exactly, Eric...as LONG AS YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SOME TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM BUT MUSLIMS AS A PEOPLE AREN"T TERRORISTS.

That was our failure when we didn't differentiate between japanese americans and japanese combatants in WWII.

And that was also 65+ years ago. I think we as a country have evolved. If you study racism or white's attitudes back then, it was so blatantly stereotypical and there wasn't even a second thought as to whether or not something like printing a news headline with a slur is appropriate or not. Look at it this way, if neocons are as awful as the Left think they are, there are at least 50% of Obama voters willing to deny any action such as that. We are safe then Believe me, I grew up in a different generation then you. There is absolutely no chance for racism to make a comeback. None.

[donovan]

Our society has not evolved. It has degenerated. Every evil and amoral trait of man will always come back if good people do nothing. We do nothing, just maintain the status quo, keep the same hogs...pun intended...at the trough.

[billybud]

And that was also 65+ years ago. I think we as a country have evolved

.

Maybe in the main, Eric. But there are a lot of Americans that believe that we are at war with all of islam and that every muslim is an enemy. And, to me, Johnson's lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the subsequent push into Vietnam looked a lot like Dubya's WMD lie 40 years later. The more things change, the more they don't.

[Derek]

And that was also 65+ years ago. I think we as a country have evolved

.

Maybe in the main, Eric. But there are a lot of Americans that believe that we are at war with all of islam and that every muslim is an enemy. And, to me, Johnson's lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the subsequent push into Vietnam looked a lot like Dubya's WMD lie 40 years later. The more things change, the more they don't.

George Bush did NOT lie...Jeez....

When there are 100 million Muslims and most experts believe that only 10% are "radicals", either silently or openly funding and supporting their Jihad, that's 10 million people who are told to lie in the pursuit of their jihad by their own book.

Trust is earned, not given by fear of reprise or calls of bigotry or racism. I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorist....but I am saying I don't trust you until you prove that you are not one of those 10 million people that want Sharia law in this country.

They are playing for all the marbles, I don't know why we can't.

[Eric]

And that was also 65+ years ago. I think we as a country have evolved

.

Maybe in the main, Eric. But there are a lot of Americans that believe that we are at war with all of islam and that every muslim is an enemy. And, to me, Johnson's lie about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the subsequent push into Vietnam looked a lot like Dubya's WMD lie 40 years later. The more things change, the more they don't.

George Bush did NOT lie...Jeez....

When there are 100 million Muslims and most experts believe that only 10% are "radicals", either silently or openly funding and supporting their Jihad, that's 10 million people who are told to lie in the pursuit of their jihad by their own book.

Trust is earned, not given by fear of reprise or calls of bigotry or racism. I'm not saying that all Muslims are terrorist....but I am saying I don't trust you until you prove that you are not one of those 10 million people that want Sharia law in this country.

They are playing for all the marbles, I don't know why we can't.

Well, it's not a fact that anyone can win or lose. Either you think Bush lied or you didn't, either way you're never going to know. I feel bad coming down on either side because if you think the administration lied, you're too cynical and if you think he went in there for noble intentions, you're naive. Whatever the reason to go in there, it was probably a bad idea.

[donovan]

I don't think Pres. Bush lied...I just think when the facts changed he was unwilling to regroup,