Michigan and App State tied at 14-14

[RazorHawk]

The word on Lloyd Carr before the season was that this would be his last year. I think he had decided to retire before the season started. His contract has him moving into a situation like Bo had up until his death.

That is the word that I also had heard. It is too bad, for his sake that he may go out, a little more tarnished than is really fair. I have always liked, and still like, Carr. I think people are not realizing how good a team Appalachian St is.

[Cane from the Bend]

I think people are not realizing how good a team Appalachian St is.

Beat Wake Forest 2 years in a row
LSU kicked a field goal and beat them by 2 with seconds remaining
Nearly handed Alabama a loss
They even put a lose on NC State

No, people aren't giving Appalachian State that much credit.

Comments such as; Michigan played that bad, App State is Not that Good --- only prove a lack of reference on this subject.

Appalachian State could easily play in D-1A (or whatever they're calling now)

They Have multiple D-1 wins, nearly beat LSU @ home, and gave more close calls to power programs than major conference fans are willing to remember.

I honestly believe, without exaggeration, that App St. could beat a lot of teams (and would have on Saturday) in the top 25, based on the performance of the many elite.

They would probably finish better in the pac-10 than either of the Arizonas. Could easily finish in the bottom 6 of the Big 10. Could give the Big 12 north a run for their money. And play exceptionally well in the Big East.

I am much more disappointed that Western Kentucky made the jump to D-1 now that App proved their worth.
Originally I was miffed that Southern Illinois wasn't the move.

The latest I heard, was a cry for Appalachian State to replace Duke in the ACC. ( I would not be opposed to this )

The funniest thing here; after all is said and done, Michigan can still win the Big Ten and play in a BCS game.

Wouldn't that be something...

[bama_girl]

agreed!

welcome back cane brane!

[Eric]

I think you're right, Cane. People who are poking fun at Michigan can go ahead if they want. Just be lucky that YOUR team didn't have to play these guys.

I don't happen to think they're as good as you're saying, Cane, but I do think they could be in the top 70 of the FBS. They could compete in the MAC and they would win the Sun Belt with relative ease too. I think they'd need some breaks, but they could be bowling if they played in the ACC or Big East (probably depending on their OOC schedule).

Their offensive speed at the skill positions gives them an advantage on defenses that can't throw 4 or 5 defensive players fast enough to cover them. Michigan was one of those teams. I'm sure there are others out there.

[Spence]

Appy State does have a good team, they won back to back national championships in 1-AA. They probably could beat several 1-A teams. Marshall did pretty well when they made the jump. That isn't the issue. The issue is that they should never beat the #5 team in the nation. Michigan has a disadvantage with spread teams in the secondary, no question about that, but that wasn't why they lost either. They lost, primarily because they didn't pay attention to the team they were playing. They played a team that was confident and not intimidated by their surroundings and they weren't ready to play football. Teams can look very slow when they aren't following their assignments. Because if you don't know what is going on, you can't react quick enough to be fast. The difference between a fast reciever and a slow offensive lineman can be as little as .5 sec. and is usually no more then 1 second. There are a few exceptions, but very few.

Take Cal-Tenn the other night. Tennessee doesn't have slow athletes, but matched up against guys who run their assignments well, they looked slow at times. Football speed and straight line speed are completely different things. Fast lineman have to be fast for ten to fifteen yards. Fast linebackers for less then forty yards. The difference between the really good players and the not so good players isn't speed as much as being able to make a read and react properly on defense. On offense it is the ability to run a perfect route or to follow a blocker to open space. Some really great tailbacks weren't the fastest guys in their conference, but they prepared, knew the other teams tendancies, and have the good vision to follow the right hole to space.

Ap St. could beat lots of 1A teams. They should never beat Michigan and they wouldn't have if Michigan would have taken the game seriously. My guess is that Michigan watched quite a bit of Oregon film when they should have been watching Ap State film. That goes back to coaching and arrogance of players. No one should think a team is going to lay down in front of them. This is a case of doing just that. Serves them right. I hope it happens more often with teams scheduling 1-AA teams.

Ohio State lost the services of their best DE to a broken leg playing a game to support the coaches old school. I hope it was worth it to him.

[Cane from the Bend]

Spence;

I hope you don't think I was making a case for Michigan. If it seemed that way, then it was completely unintentional.

Knowing who you're playing is definitely the key to preparation. I agree.

And yes, Michigan should have been paying closer attention to who their opponent was... they did not... and they got bitten by it.

Actually, you kind of made the point I was indirectly aiming for, for me.

If anybody would have seen how close Appalachian State had come to beating an otherwise thought of D-1 National Contender, then, who could take them lightly.

However, the problem is, emphasis.

Emphasis on a team after they lost in a shootout with a previous powerhouse.

And emphasis on keeping your head in the game... whether that be prior to, kicking off, during... and in Michigan's backlash effect, finishing.

I don't care what rank Michigan was. They could have #1 or 120, the outcome would have still been the same. App got the better of a team who didn't pay attention to their previous showings.

You say, they shouldn't have beat #5 Michigan... but, wasn't LSU a top 10 team when they had to pull off that come from behind heart thumper.

The media only focusses on the hear and now. LSU remembers the bullet that just missed them. But nobody else did, because the media dropped it after that day of the game, due to the fact LSU pulled out the W.

Nobody will forget this loss.

Why? Because even if the Wolverines finish the rest of the way unscathed, Michigan is out of the National title hunt... period. And the media will remind us of it every week.

The other reason, is because how far down Michigan was before they made their come back.

In truth, with Appalachian State being scheduled as often as they had been, and with as many close call to the wire games they have had with prominent programs already, one had to think, it would eventually happen... to somebody. And that "Somebody" just happened to be Michigan.

Ironically (or maybe not, considering alot of us have brought this up before), you bring up the same argument I was preaching all week leading up the the first game.

D-1 teams should never schedule opponents from outer divisional play.

I don't like, I never did.

Even more so ironic (or moronic) is how this was the first time Michigan had ever played a D-1AA program. And they lost.

I said the same thing...

Good, serves them right.

Now they can feel Colorado's pain, and Stanford's pain, and Pitt's pain, and Wake's pain, and anyone else who lost to a D-1AA program in recent years.

One thing it did do, however, is undoubtably prove that Appalachian State is ready to make the jump.

The only question is, who then leaves?
Because there are 120 teams in the mainstream division as it is.

Enough is enough.

And with cries (that will most likely go unanswered) to have App replace Duke as an ACC team (some of that talk is coming from App ST's head coach), how long before they take the climb.

If ever there were a time, it is now.

>

Eric:

Do you really think I am giving Appalachian State too much credit?

Simply ponder this, then.

If Appalachian State is good enough to crack the top 70, in your view, ask yourself =

In the age of midmajor BCS game busters, how many BCS schools actually fall into that # 70ish rankig area, and would App St give them a game to remember?

[Spence]

Ap State won't make the jump. The school is tiny. They would get their lunch handed to them on a regular basis if they had to play at that level every week. In the course of a season talent will win out. D1A teams shouldn't be playing 1-AA schools for any reason. In Ohio a division IV team may occasionally knock of a division I or II team. That doesn't mean they could play a division I schedule and win. They know it and so does Ap State.

[donovan]

Ap State won't make the jump. The school is tiny. They would get their lunch handed to them on a regular basis if they had to play at that level every week. In the course of a season talent will win out. D1A teams shouldn't be playing 1-AA schools for any reason. In Ohio a division IV team may occasionally knock of a division I or II team. That doesn't mean they could play a division I schedule and win. They know it and so does Ap State.

Absolutely correct...and...that is exactly why out of the 119 teams there are levels of play. Not every team should be scheduling certain teams. Albeit not too good, that is what the BCS tried to do...indicate there were some schools that should concentrate on similar schools. Every once in a while you get a mid major creeping in, or a school that has not done real well, stepping up. Those chips fall where they may...and as the big schools know it and AP State knows it..so does Boise State.

[Cane from the Bend]

I respectively disagree.

There are certain teams in BCS conferences that are having trouble getting even one win in a regular season. (and I suppose the ends do not justiy the means, seeing as winning is everything in College Football)

I'd take App St over Duke any day.

Notice I say, Duke. I'm not suggesting Appalachian State could win a BCS conference title. And I don't recall saying they would finish better than sixth in a BCS conference.

The problem is, Duke is too big for the conference to lose from a Basketball stand point.

There are, though, several D-1 programs that could use a wake up call.

I do feel as though App St could compete quite successfully in one or more midmajor conference.

Last season Western Kentucky was a Div 1AA program.
They are a relatively smaller school.
And they made the jump to mainstream this season.

Presently, Western Kentucky is inelligible to compete for a bowl game until next year, due to current obligations to fullfill their remaining schedule, which includes 5 or 6 FCS teams. However, the fact is, they made the jump, and Appalchian State finished better than Western Kentucky in, at least, the last two seasons.

Although, Western Kentucky will officially be a member of the Sun Belt next season, it still begs the question.

If they can do it, why not App St>>?

.

And, just for the record;

I can not find the thread, nor remember what the original subject to the topic that initiated the responses, but Eric:

As surprised as everyone seemed to be by Michigan's loss on Saturday, I could swear that you posted a reply declaring that you were calling it first, and that we should mark your words that Michigan would lose their season opener.

And if I'm not mistaken, Spence's response went something like:

" No way Michigan loses to Appalachian State in the Big House. A div-1AA could not prepare themselves for Michigan's speed. One deep pass from Hene to Manningham over the middle for a touchdown and Appalachian State's confidence would be broke."
(or something along the lines of that)

That's when Eric's "I don't know, I just have a feeling Michigan loses" and mark his words.

Someone else chimed in, asking, Eric "why do you think Michigan will lose their first game"?

And Eric responded with nothing but a picture of Lloyd Carr in his next reply.

===============================================

Anyway, I bring that up because:

1. Eric you did call it
2. Nobody saw it coming but you
( and apparently App St )


.

[Spence]

I don't remember writing that, but it sounds like something I would say. I actually still believe that if Michigan would have hit Manningham over the top early, it would have been a very different game. I know that some would say that Ap State's corners shut him down, but that isn't the case. When he got single coverage, he got open. Michigan wasn't ready to take on that team.

I agree about Duke and some others. The difference would be D1A teams have to maintain a certain attendence level. I believe they need to average 25,000 (it may be 15,000). AP State would have to have everyone in their area bring one friend every week to make that happen. They also wouldn't win. Duke has resources that let them be in the mix. AP State just doesn't have that kind of cash.

On a purely football level, yes they could beat several teams in and out of major conferences. Not enough times to make it count though. They play LSU, Florida, and some others in the next few years. Those teams won't take them as lightly because of the Michigan win. Then we get to see if they can compete at this level.

[Cane from the Bend]

That's kind of a double edged sword, isn't it?

On one hand, you have App St playing against major BCS conference program contenders to determine whether or not they can compete at this level.

On-the-other hand, you have teams in D-1A who can not compete at this level, even with midmajor teams. And even, midmajor teams who know that they can't compete against major BCS conference contenders, that do not schedule them, but rather, schedule the weeker BCS programs.

It sure makes one appreciate the "We'll play anybody, anytime, anywhere" attitude of programs like Fresno St.

.

[Spence]

Your not wrong, but teams like Duke and Indiana and many other major schools contribute so much more to 1A then just a football team. In both sports and academics (in terms of research and things).

[Spence]

Hey, lets not go that far.

[Eric]

Well, first off, I didn't call it. I knew Michigan would blow a game or two that they shouldn't lose, that happens every year. I didn't see it coming against Appalachian State, but looking back, we should've seen it coming. There were major matchup problems. On my blog, actually, I had Michigan on Upset Alert, but I didn't think Appy State was going to come that close to winning. The thread you speak of was one where fluiddude and I were talking about the Oregon game where I told him not to worry because Lloyd would ruin the game (even I was looking towards that one )

I'll tell you why the Mountaineers beat us.....Appalachian State is HOT HOT HOT!

On a serious note though, I'll list off some teams in that 70ish range that I think would beat Appalachian State: Wyoming, Bowling Green (now that they have a QB), maybe Central Florida, Virginia has the kind of defense that could shut them down somewhat, Troy would probably give them a game, I think Western Michigan would beat them, and a team like Indiana or Ole Miss might could beat them. I'm not ready to crown them Boise State or TCU. They probably do fall in the 60-70 range of teams nationally. But they did present a matchup issue with Michigan and that's why they won. Okay, fine, Little Blue might not have the slowest athletes of all time, but they don't play fast enough. I agree with you, Spence, on that.

[billybud]

Penn State plays FIU and there were 54 AA teams rated as stronger than IA FIU last year. The number of A's don't tell the story. I'd rather play Duke than about 25 AA teams.