Bowl Season

Say it all here
Forum rules
NOTICE: Please be sure to check the CFP Message Board Rules and Regulations and the Read Me page before posting.
billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 10483
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: Bowl Season

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:31 pm

The targeting call was the textbook definition of a target...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhUby8SOEbs


Targetting...any one or more of the following


...Leading with helmet, shoulder forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area.(guilty)

...Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of his helmet. (guilty)




....
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:07 pm

He did hit helmet first. There is something about being a runner and not defenseless and Lawrence did lower his head to run too, but like I said, that rule is so vague in how it is enforced and interpreted you can’t really have a legitimate defense if the helmets touch. Although initially it was put into place to stop projectile tackling and that isn’t what Wade did.
It sucks Wade had to leave the game and he is the wall in the middle of Ohio State’s defense, but it is hard to argue he was ejected without warrant. I tend to think arguing that call is sour grapes. It did have as much impact as any single call on the field. Even if it was a good call.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 10483
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: Bowl Season

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:18 pm

There is nothing about being a runner...in the targetting rule.
..there is a determination in calling roughing the passer...whether he has become a runner.

There is another section of targetting rule about being defenseless
being away from the play and blindsided

They were not salient to this call.

The two I identified were the points...it was clearly a targetting foul.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:53 pm

Like I said, I can except that call. I don’t like the rule because they leave so much to interpretation instead of defining it to tight perimeters, but he did hit with his helmet first. There is no argument there.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 10483
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: Bowl Season

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:54 pm

The NCAA does say they will err on the side of safety.

Players are so instructed...yet there will always be an idiot lowering his hemet to punish on a tackle.

The only area being called that even bothers me some is when the offensive running back lowers his head into an oncoming defender's tackle...thus initiating the helmet to helmet hit.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:45 pm

billybud wrote:The NCAA does say they will err on the side of safety.

Players are so instructed...yet there will always be an idiot lowering his hemet to punish on a tackle.

The only area being called that even bothers me some is when the offensive running back lowers his head into an oncoming defender's tackle...thus initiating the helmet to helmet hit.


That happens too much. They don’t seem to think it is dangerous when an offensive player does it. I do like the rugby style tackling that they are teaching now. It is har to do on when rushing the qb. Chase Young is real good at it. He almost never wraps and tackles. More like a wrestling move with his upper body. Wade isn’t strong enough to preform that type of tackle. Guys like him are going to have to start taking the knees out.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 10483
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: Bowl Season

Postby billybud » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:19 pm

You tackled and played differently, and perhaps more cautiously, in my day (early 60's).

With just a single bar face guard, you were aware of face vulnerability. I took a powerful forearm under my bar that ended my season...broken nose, split lips, loose teeth.

I played rugby until my late 30's...over the years had a stitched eyebrow, separated rib...and that was it.
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:13 pm

We used basic form tackling in the 70's. They didn't start the projectile tackling until later. I never had any experience with Rugby. I don't hate how it works, but it seems like if you were dealing with a big back like Herschel Walker an Earl Campbell type back that it would be hard to bring them down. It was hard enough form tackling those guys.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

billybud
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 10483
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: Bowl Season

Postby billybud » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:42 pm

I used my body to tackle a big back...would wait until he made his move up close and would throw myself low across his knees...usually took the hit with my hip
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”

User avatar
Mountainman
Head Coach
Head Coach
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:42 am

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Mountainman » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:52 pm

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:52 pm

billybud wrote:I used my body to tackle a big back...would wait until he made his move up close and would throw myself low across his knees...usually took the hit with my hip


You want to hit a big back low IMO. But there is also a rule against being too low. I think that is how the projectile tackling got started. Then when TV and fans thought it was great, kids started doing it.

There needs to be a rule in place to protect players. But there has to be a correct way to do it. No matter what the other night Wade was getting a 15 yard penalty. I know the rule disqualifies him. I really don’t have an issue with the officials on that call. I do think that when Wade came to make the hit that Lawrence went into a defensive position to protect himself and that is what triggered targeting. That is what I don’t like about the rule. Wade was clearly not head hunting. He was doing his job. He made a bad hit. I think that the rule should be changed to reflect some of those situations. I have had issues with this rule since the beginning. They actually are changing it. A couple years ago the LSU defender that was reviewed for targeting would have received a penalty. That play shouldn’t have been and wasn’t targeting. So that is progress.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:59 pm

Mountainman wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-supervisor-of-officials-fumble-return-for-td-should-have-stood-in-ohio-state-clemson-game/


The national supervisor for officials also said it should have stood because it was called fumble on the field. That said, I am embarrassed how some Buckeye fans are acting about this. It didn’t cost Ohio State the game. It put them in a bad position, but that is the breaks. Humans officiate the game. Sometimes they mess up. Acting like it cost Ohio State the game diminished what Clemson did in the game and that is wrong. They played a great game. Coach Day made some mistakes. He is a first time head coach in the biggest game of his life. He almost got the W. Buckeye Nation should congratulate Clemson and be very thankful for the Day is our coach. I think he is a star.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

User avatar
Cane from the Bend
Athletic Director
Athletic Director
Posts: 4023
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:25 am
Location: South Bend, IN (domerville usa)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Cane from the Bend » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:03 pm

__________________________________________________

You keep 'em from scoring; you've solidified overtime .......... However ..........

You have 12 men on the field, giving them 5 yards for an untimed down, putting them closer where they go for a field goal attempt.

Good job Western Michigan. You lost do to being simply uncoordinated.

Nice win for Western Kentucky.

But what a ridiculous finish. They lined up for a kick, then scrambled to get the offense back onto the field. 3 seconds left, Hail Hary pass, incomplete ... flag.

You'd almost expect a pass interference, due to the nature of the play. But, 12 men on the field for the Broncos.

52 yard field goal kicked by Freshman Western Kentucky kicker, Cory Munson --- his career long kick. To win the Bowl Game.

That is a moment he'll take with him forever.

.
.
.
Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

User avatar
Mountainman
Head Coach
Head Coach
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:42 am

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Mountainman » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:21 pm

Spence wrote:
Mountainman wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-supervisor-of-officials-fumble-return-for-td-should-have-stood-in-ohio-state-clemson-game/


The national supervisor for officials also said it should have stood because it was called fumble on the field. That said, I am embarrassed how some Buckeye fans are acting about this. It didn’t cost Ohio State the game. It put them in a bad position, but that is the breaks. Humans officiate the game. Sometimes they mess up. Acting like it cost Ohio State the game diminished what Clemson did in the game and that is wrong. They played a great game. Coach Day made some mistakes. He is a first time head coach in the biggest game of his life. He almost got the W. Buckeye Nation should congratulate Clemson and be very thankful for the Day is our coach. I think he is a star.


..........and not to mention that Lawrence was fantastic!!!!! :wink:






Yeah, fans do get a little over the top at times..... as we’ve mentioned the Buckeyes did more to hurt themselves than the Tigers did. The ‘hit’ which was by rule a targeting foul plus another Buckeye 15 yard penalty during the same drive that resulted in a score, in addition to the Roughing the Kicker call when Clemson was kicking from their own goal line resulted in a score, plus a couple of dropped TD passes by the Bucks, all on top of the Blown Fumble Call that took a score off the board was just too much to overcome, but they came about as close as you can to doing it. 8)
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

User avatar
Spence
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 20035
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:52 pm
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio (Ohio's First Capital)
Contact:

Re: Bowl Season

Postby Spence » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Yes. Ohio State did everything they could to take themselves out of the game and was still a miscommunication away from a win. I am a fan so, of course I was worked up right after, but it was a great game. Had it been anyone else except Ohio State in the game, I would have been saying it was an outstanding game. Since I was emotionally involved it took me until the next day to realize it.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 17 guests