I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

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billybud
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:16 pm

Because conference champs aren't the best teams, necessarily....
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 pm

The teams picked by the committee aren't necessarily the best teams either, but at least this gives every conference a shot to prove it or lose it on the field.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:00 am

Oh bosh...the Committee's and AP's picks will be closer to having the best teams than having conference Champs where a 12-1 Alabama doesn't play but a 10-2 Oklahoma or Oregon does.

Conference champs and best teams in the country are not synonomous...like I said...if you don't mind ignoring teams like a 12-1 Alabama for a lesser team...than conference champs is OK.

Me? I want the best teams to play for it...And if two of the best teams happen to be in the same conference...so what?
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Cane from the Bend » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:15 am

__________________________________________________

And if Alabama is 11-1 without playing in the Conference Championship; then don't have the SEC Championship game.

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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 am

Huh? Conference divisions are really uneven...when you have Georgia and Alabama...both 11-1, both with the same loss to the same team....Georgia plays because they are in the East and Auburn is in the Wext...while Bama sits out the CCG because of geography...and Bama did finally neet Georgia and beat them...

It is difficult to compare teams who do not play the exact same schedule, I get that.

Nebraska has complained to the Big Ten about their perceived unfairness of their schedule...

From 2017-2021, Frost’s team will only play four of a possible 15 cross-divisional games against Indiana (1), Maryland (1), or Rutgers (2). The other 11 games will either come against Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, or Penn State. Nebraska’s annual interdivisional opponent through 2021 is Ohio State, then shifts to Michigan until 2025.
Last edited by billybud on Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:50 am

Details aren’t uber-specific about the context of the remarks, but multiple sources around the conference confirmed to Crimson Quarry that Frost had raised complaints in discussions privately and publicly that Nebraska had been saddled with a difficult of a cross-divisional Big Ten schedule in future seasons. His specific complaint? His team needs more games against historically weaker programs, citing Indiana specifically by name. Of course, that became bulletin board material for Tom Allen’s Hoosiers in the lead up to Saturday’s contest in Lincoln — and was at least part of the motivation behind some of the comments from the Indiana side after the game.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:42 am

billybud wrote:Oh bosh...the Committee's and AP's picks will be closer to having the best teams than having conference Champs where a 12-1 Alabama doesn't play but a 10-2 Oklahoma or Oregon does.

Conference champs and best teams in the country are not synonomous...like I said...if you don't mind ignoring teams like a 12-1 Alabama for a lesser team...than conference champs is OK.

Me? I want the best teams to play for it...And if two of the best teams happen to be in the same conference...so what?


How do you determine who the best teams are? I say you can't. I can't. No one can. If you could watch teams - as most of us do every week. Even if you had access to tape you can't know are the best teams. The committee is in place to try to make sure they have matchups people will care about. This year I watched Georgia beat Notre Dame 23-17. I thought Notre Dame must be a good team. Then I watched Michigan who looked like dog crap earlier in the season bull whip Notre Dame. So what does that tell me? I say nothing. Except that Notre Dame has two losses. No one knows who the best 4 teams are in any given year. You can be sure you have 4 in the top 20 maybe, but
if you can't do it, why pretend you can. Why not just let the conference champs play. Acknowledging that you can't get the correct 4 but you will likely get 2 of the top 4 teams in t he tournament. All I'm saying is if you can't do it right, why not let them settle it on the field.

This is a CFB SOS ranking:
1. South Carolina

2. USC

3. Stanford

4. Auburn

5. Michigan

6. LSU

7. Texas A&M

8. UCLA

9. Maryland

10. Iowa

11. Purdue

12. Ole Miss

13. Ohio State

14. Colorado

15. Georgia

16. Michigan State

17. West Virginia

18. Tennessee

19. Rutgers

20. Duke

21. Boston College

22. Northwestern

23. Georgia Tech

24. Notre Dame

25. Oregon State

26. Texas

27. Florida State

28. Wisconsin

29. Mississippi State

30. Arizona

31. Nebraska

32. Kansas

33. Penn State

34. Florida

35. Louisville

36. Texas Tech

37. TCU

38. Pittsburgh

39. Arkansas

40. Kansas State

41. North Carolina

42. Illinois

43. Kentucky

44. Iowa State

45. Washington State

46. Indiana

47. Missouri

48. Oklahoma

49. California

50. Oregon

51. Washington

52. Oklahoma State

53. Minnesota

54. Vanderbilt

55. Arizona State

56. Alabama

57. Wake Forest

58. Utah

59. Clemson

Should any team with the same or equal record than Alabama or Clemson be in the poll ahead of them? Their body of work would suggest that the committee would do that given their criteria - excepting the "eye test".
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:16 am

The other side of that is "why pretend that just being a conference champ puts you in the top 4?"

Like when 8-4 FSU upset 11-1 VT in the ACC championship and went on as the ACC Champ to play Big Ten Champ 10-1 Penn State.

Or when 10-1 Nebraske was upset in the Big 12 title game by 8-4 Texas....Nebraska won their bowl...Texas was blown out by 23 points in their bowl.

Who was better at the end of the season...11-2 Oklahoma, 11-2 Texas, or 10-3 Colorado (Big 12 Champ who did not play Oklahoma and who already had a loss to Texas before upsetting the Longhorns by 2 in the CCG?

I still think that we come closer to having the best teams play when not having "automatic qualifiers"....but that is just my own opinion and many would not agree.

That so, Donovan?

Donovan

The system is rigged in smoke filled back rooms without public scrutiny. And is a canival flim flam designed to fool the rubes who don't know that the ring will barely fit over the bottle neck...and the prize, if they win, is a $1.29 chinese made piece of fluff. The giant Teddy bear prizes are just for show.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:26 am

billybud wrote:The other side of that is "why pretend that just being a conference champ puts you in the top 4?"

Like when 8-4 FSU upset 11-1 VT in the ACC championship and went on as the ACC Champ to play Big Ten Champ 10-1 Penn State.

Or when 10-1 Nebraske was upset in the Big 12 title game by 8-4 Texas....Nebraska won their bowl...Texas was blown out by 23 points in their bowl.

Who was better at the end of the season...11-2 Oklahoma, 11-2 Texas, or 10-3 Colorado (Big 12 Champ who did not play Oklahoma and who already had a loss to Texas before upsetting the Longhorns by 2 in the CCG?

I still think that we come closer to having the best teams play when not having "automatic qualifiers"....but that is just my own opinion and many would not agree.

That so, Donovan?

Donovan

The system is rigged in smoke filled back rooms without public scrutiny. And is a canival flim flam designed to fool the rubes who don't know that the ring will barely fit over the bottle neck...and the prize, if they win, is a $1.29 chinese made piece of fluff. The giant Teddy bear prizes are just for show.


I agree that there are examples of conference champs that made on an upset and probably aren't the best team in their conference, but so what? They at least proved it on the field and weren't anointed by 20 people in a room somewhere. The best team doesn't make it to the end every single time in any tournament. And if you can't be sure you have the correct 4 or 8, why not let them decide by playing?

Donovan was right that strength of schedule seems to be a good excuse to exclude someone but "the eye test" seems to be a get out of jail free card if you want to disregard SOS. It is just not possible to put the four best teams in. I'm not saying they have been right or wrong, just that their criteria is fallible and not at all objective. Letting them play it out on the field (1) gives every conference a shot at the title (2) settles everything objectively on the field. That seems to me as close to perfect as you can ask. There are just to many contradicting variables to trying to pick the 4 best teams. You could throw the top 15 in a hat and do as well.
I guess the NCAA could pick four basketball teams for a playoff and there would be a huge fit. I don't know because I didn't look, but I'm betting Gonzaga doesn't have the best SOS in basketball.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Mountainman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:18 am

All the “Solutions” put forth and tried so far have had the same “Problem”. The problem is that from the AP and UPI days, thru the Bowl Alliance, Bowl Championship Series and currently the College Football Playoffs quest to determine a National Champion all have relied on some group of people to subjectively interpret and apply rules and guidelines..... AND IT HASN’T WORKED IN ANY INSTANCE. The CFP will go the way of of these previous attempts for the same reason.

Teams’ qualifications and selections have always been the issues the ‘committee people’ have stumbled around with simply because of the individual perceptions and interpretations.

But football is a simple game where there’s a winner and a loser at the end of every game, and there’s the solution. So, play a solid schedule, win on the field and implement a system that will let the game itself determine who’s the champion.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:39 pm

Mountainman wrote:All the “Solutions” put forth and tried so far have had the same “Problem”. The problem is that from the AP and UPI days, thru the Bowl Alliance, Bowl Championship Series and currently the College Football Playoffs quest to determine a National Champion all have relied on some group of people to subjectively interpret and apply rules and guidelines..... AND IT HASN’T WORKED IN ANY INSTANCE. The CFP will go the way of of these previous attempts for the same reason.

Teams’ qualifications and selections have always been the issues the ‘committee people’ have stumbled around with simply because of the individual perceptions and interpretations.

But football is a simple game where there’s a winner and a loser at the end of every game, and there’s the solution. So, play a solid schedule, win on the field and implement a system that will let the game itself determine who’s the champion.


I think even trying to schedule a good lineup causes problems. Ohio State had a return game with TCU this year that TCU baled on so we played FIU. TCU would have made the Ohio State schedule a little better than it has been this year - which to this point has been not very good.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Mountainman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:22 pm

Spence wrote:
Mountainman wrote:All the “Solutions” put forth and tried so far have had the same “Problem”. The problem is that from the AP and UPI days, thru the Bowl Alliance, Bowl Championship Series and currently the College Football Playoffs quest to determine a National Champion all have relied on some group of people to subjectively interpret and apply rules and guidelines..... AND IT HASN’T WORKED IN ANY INSTANCE. The CFP will go the way of of these previous attempts for the same reason.

Teams’ qualifications and selections have always been the issues the ‘committee people’ have stumbled around with simply because of the individual perceptions and interpretations.

But football is a simple game where there’s a winner and a loser at the end of every game, and there’s the solution. So, play a solid schedule, win on the field and implement a system that will let the game itself determine who’s the champion.


I think even trying to schedule a good lineup causes problems. Ohio State had a return game with TCU this year that TCU baled on so we played FIU. TCU would have made the Ohio State schedule a little better than it has been this year - which to this point has been not very good.



Absolutely scheduling a good lineup can cause problems, but here’s the deal, who a team plays and who a team beats will be the only criteria for selection. Just as losing a Star Player or two or three that results in a loss doesn’t matter. Bad luck or circumstance just cannot matter. Schedule 12, play the games, and add up a team’s cumulative points at the end of the season and hope it’s enough to qualify for the tournament.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby Spence » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:56 pm

That is why I like the conference champ model. When you conference and you're in. Then the schedule doesn't matter either. The only thing that matters is having a good enough record in your conference to make it to the conference championship game and then win it. Then playoff the conference champs seeding based off of SOS or wins or whatever anyone wants to do. Everyone has a conference championship now so that isn't even an issue. Single elimination - one and your done.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:06 pm

mountainman posted:

Should any team with the same or equal record than Alabama or Clemson be in the poll ahead of them? Their body of work would suggest that the committee would do that given their criteria - excepting the "eye test".


So far, there are teams that are 8-0....Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Ohio State, and Penn State...

And Baylor, Minnesota, Appalachian State, SMU,,

Sagarin's Predictor Ranking (which has proven to be a good predictor for future games)...says that Ohio State would be favored by two TD's over Baylor, Minnesota and SMU.

If Sagarin was choosing the Top Four today...it would be Ohio State vs LSU and Clemson vs Alabama.
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Re: I believe CFP Chairman just said.....

Postby billybud » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:12 pm

Alabama will play LSU in a pre playoff...playoff.

Should be an epic game....

Since Alabama and Clemson have met in the NC game in three of the last four playoffs...With either Bama or Clemson winning the last four NC's...they have been a proven commodity.....
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”


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