FYI

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Mountainman
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FYI

Postby Mountainman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:59 pm

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Cane from the Bend
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Re: FYI

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:59 am

---

I think this was interesting; as the article goes on to say this:

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) has vocalized his distaste for the NCAA's model, and other state representatives could see the public's support over an issue like this and look to enact legislation. The topic has become so chic that U.S. presidential candidates have made their voices heard: Sen. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) endorsed California's bill just last week, and Democrat Andrew Yang has gone after the NCAA's amateurism model for months. Rep. Mark Walker (R-NC) is trying to bring these rights to student-athletes on a federal level in North Carolina.


Then says:

The universities don't necessarily align themselves with SB 206, but that's no matter: This is about the rights of student-athletes in the eyes of the state's government. This is about the pragmatism of a free-market society in which players could theoretically earn money from outside entities.


So, Bernie is supporting this as a Free Market legislation ..?

I doubt it.

More like he is putting his coins in every machines that will garner supporting interest in himself.

I agree with some of what is going on here. The NCAA has been taking advantage of student athletes for too long. But I don't like how this is being presented. politics interfering as a governing body over Collegiate Sports. Feels like one step closer to communism.

Someone needs to take up for these kids. But the method should be for their benefit. And I just do not trust politicians enough to believe they mean what they say, and are doing what they claim.

Right now, I have no problem with this:

Going forward, if/when the bill becomes law, schools would not directly pay their players. From a financial standpoint, it keeps the NCAA and universities' finances exactly as they stand now. Most importantly, the bill would give legal protection to all California-based student-athletes. Schools, and the NCAA, could not pull scholarships or suspend players for agreeing to endorsement deals or taking money from outside interests based on their talent and marketability.

Jersey sales, autographs, sponsorships from local business, shoe deals, whatever. If their name, image or likeness is viewed as a profit-making asset by any entity, college athletes in the state of California will have the right to be paid off their talent and marketability.


As for this statement:

"I just want to say, 'NCAA, don't threaten California. Don't threaten us,'" Democratic Sen. Sydney Kamlager-Dove said Monday, per USA Today. "Because we have formidable schools. We have formidable alumni. And we have formidable viewership. And we can leverage those things until 2023, when this bill takes effect. I'm sick of being leveraged by the NCAA on the backs of athletes who have the right to their own name and image."

If California-based college athletes were able to profit off their names, images and likenesses, NCAA bylaws -- as they currently read -- would activate ineligibility for all such players and their corresponding teams. Is the NCAA going to hold firm to this? It's hard to see that happening.

With decades worth of anti-trust legal precedent potentially standing in the NCAA's way, we could have a fascinating standoff, one that should no longer be of much debate yet remains ongoing because of the NCAA's glacial pace to change. Consider this: College basketball's coaching fraternity, by a wide margin, is in favor of the sport's players having an opportunity to get paid.

California makes for the most interesting, if not perfect, trial ground. Twenty-six Division I basketball schools reside in the state, which is the most populous in our nation by a wide margin. At nearly 40 million residents, California has approximately 10 million more people than Texas, which is second in population. Four California universities are prominent Pac-12 members: UCLA, USC, Stanford and Cal.

The universities don't necessarily align themselves with SB 206, but that's no matter: This is about the rights of student-athletes in the eyes of the state's government. This is about the pragmatism of a free-market society in which players could theoretically earn money from outside entities.


California has a large potential viewer radius. But they do not have a Large Market Viewer interest when it comes to College Sports. It is a Pro Sport heavy State. And unless the College Programs are winning at a high level, the potential viewer market tunes out. Simply check the televised ratings.

To further the example; merely look at the interest in holding 9 am kickoff ties for California football teams. It is purely an attempt to widen their televised viewership. Because the market is not currently there.

And with the recent swam of realignment, California hasn't profited well from all of this. Of all the Conference Channels, the Pac-12 and Mountain West conferences come in last.

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This rings familiar to me of the dispute that happened in the Indy Car Racing circuit back in 1996.

All of the top Team Owners were demanding something from the Indianapolis Motor Club. They were denied. So the owners decided, "We'll Show You!", and held a race called the US 500, on the same day as the Indianapolis 500.

CART officially announces the inaugural running of the U.S. 500 on December 18, 1995, at a press conference in Chicago. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway immediately released a reaction expressing its disappointment of CART in what it called a "negative impact on automobile racing."

On March 4, 1996, a total of twelve corporate sponsors were announced for the U.S. 500. In addition, telephone orders through Ticketmaster began offering tickets to the event.

On March 20, 1996, ticket sales for the event were attempted to be boosted by a "doubleheader" ticket for the U.S. 500 and the CART event at Detroit on June 9.

On April 25, 1996, it was announced that the Vanderbilt Cup would be recreated and awarded to the winner of the U.S. 500.

Despite CART's efforts to broadcast the race on network TV, ESPN was chosen in March to air the race. In addition, instead of being able to broadcast directly against the Indianapolis 500, the event had to be scheduled for 2 p.m Eastern Daylight Time, two hours after the start at Indy.

CART had attempted to lure NBC or Fox, but neither deal came through. Fox wanted to show the race in primetime, which would have flatly defeated the purpose of racing the same day as the Indy 500, and in fact would have conflicted with the broadcast of the race with that of the Coca-Cola 600 on TBS instead.

Tony George, owner of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, formed the Indy Racing League as an alternative to CART. While the Indianapolis 500 had continued to be sanctioned by the United States Auto Club since the formation of CART in 1979, CART teams and drivers represented the vast majority of the Indy field, and United States Auto Club had taken steps to ensure that the technical specifications for Indy did not preclude CART teams from participating.

In 1996, however, following his creation of the IRL, Tony George stipulated that 25 of the 33 starting positions at Indy would be reserved for the top 25 cars which ran events in his series. This move created potential scheduling conflicts with CART-sanctioned events.

Interpreting this policy as a lockout of CART teams, the CART board agreed to stage the U.S. 500 at an alternative venue on Memorial Day weekend, the traditional date for the Indianapolis 500. George, on the other hand, viewed the refusal of CART teams to compete for the remaining eight positions on the Indy grid as a walkout/boycott.

The end result, was that the Indianapolis 500 went on as scheduled, despite having the majority of its Teams & Drives enter into a competing race. The Indy went on to Sellout its tickets [as it does annually], and the viewership for the race did not drop at all.

The US 500 had a disappointing viewer base. Nearly insignificant in ratings. This standoff was very short lived, and the Tony George crowd came crawling back defeated.
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I don't know if the NCAA has the fortitude to let them walk. But, as far as revenue shares would go, it would only hurt the Universities involved. All while, it would open the door to programs from outside the state to take prime event participation openings, due to the absence of the California schools.

The NCAA would likely be more timid if this were the Eastern Basketball Schools threatening to walk. To some degree, even though they don;t make money off of football, if the Southern Football schools were to opt out, they would cave. That would be to the massive outcry from fan bases. The NCAA could not survive that backlash.

However; California as a whole ... most of the rest of the country probably just shrugs their shoulders. In this context, California really does not have the leverage they think they do.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
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Derek
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Re: FYI

Postby Derek » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 am

I'll never be OK with players being paid by the schools. But I don't care if they sell jerseys or work a job in order to make earn money, or get money for being on the cover a video game.
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

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Re: FYI

Postby Spence » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:06 am

Derek wrote:I'll never be OK with players being paid by the schools. But I don't care if they sell jerseys or work a job in order to make earn money, or get money for being on the cover a video game.


I agree with that. They should be aloud to sell their likeness. They schools have been making money with the players image for years and years.
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Re: FYI

Postby Mountainman » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:30 am

I suspect this is not entirely about the athlete or their well being..... there’s a profit motive for others lurking somewhere out there. Guys like LeBron James might be a place to start looking. Would these sales be tax or income tax exempt or would the State also get a piece of the pie??? I mean if they really want to help the athlete......

I wonder who else would profit by selling the likeness of a College Athlete????? What percentage of the ‘sales’ would go to the athlete????

In any event, keep the politicians out of it, especially California Politicians. I would think, based on what I’ve actually witnessed, they’ve got better and more pressing issues to spend their time and efforts on.... instead let the NCAA manage the production, marketing and sales and take their cut, and distribute to the non-revenue generating sports they’ve mandated. :roll:
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Re: FYI

Postby donovan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:14 pm

By in large, this board has always expressed that some type of monthly stipend for players would be appropriate. The idea a person could qualify academically and athletically to receive an athletic scholarship and not be able to accept because he has no monetary support for incidentals and is banned from obtaining them is ludicrous. A few hundred bucks a month to buy toothpaste, condoms and an occasional pizza seems reasonable. Now if we can only get them to use the first two.
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Re: FYI

Postby billybud » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:52 pm

donovan wrote:By in large, this board has always expressed that some type of monthly stipend for players would be appropriate. The idea a person could qualify academically and athletically to receive an athletic scholarship and not be able to accept because he has no monetary support for incidentals and is banned from obtaining them is ludicrous. A few hundred bucks a month to buy toothpaste, condoms and an occasional pizza seems reasonable. Now if we can only get them to use the first two.



Most schools now pay Stipends to football players ranging up to $5000 or a little more per year....for these kind of things.

Tennessee pays $5,666 and Mizzou pays $4290...(7th of the 13 SEC public programs)...Missouri State pays $4,034
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Re: FYI

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:50 pm

Mountainman wrote:I suspect this is not entirely about the athlete or their well being..... there’s a profit motive for others lurking somewhere out there. Guys like LeBron James might be a place to start looking. Would these sales be tax or income tax exempt or would the State also get a piece of the pie??? I mean if they really want to help the athlete......

I wonder who else would profit by selling the likeness of a College Athlete????? What percentage of the ‘sales’ would go to the athlete????

In any event, keep the politicians out of it, especially California Politicians. I would think, based on what I’ve actually witnessed, they’ve got better and more pressing issues to spend their time and efforts on.... instead let the NCAA manage the production, marketing and sales and take their cut, and distribute to the non-revenue generating sports they’ve mandated. :roll:


Bingo!

That is exactly what they are doing ...

Maintaining the status quo of; "See, we really are on your side" [for votes] ... all the while, taking taxes from these monetary exchanges, and selling out to companies [entertainment media] who hold vested interest in seeing these kids profit, because they'll be the ones reaping the rewards.

Take for instance, a music label --- the Musicians make pennies from their sales. The majority of the cash goes to the production studio, the manager, the promoter. The musician is the last person on the totem pole to get paid --- They make most of their own money from concert performances.

No way espn gives these kids the majority of the money for appearing in studio, or gives them a percentage for revenue generation. They'll get peanuts of what their appearances will bring in. Someone else will get paid more than the athlete.

And there is no way that these media companies do not have their hands in this. They are looking to exploit every avenue of net gain they can. I'd be interested in seeing how much money espn/Disney shell companies have donated to some of these politicians.

I do not have a problem with athletes making money from autograph signings. But, I would have a big problem if there was a booth set up for them, and the athlete were given a percentage of total sales for their autographed memorabilia.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: FYI

Postby billybud » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:00 pm

And...let's not count the $100,000 plus tuition for education, covered housing costs, food at the training tables etc....there is something of value that these kids receive.

The true scholar athletes back in the day were students like everyone else....

I think that I am a curmudgeon and thus less tolerant of the "me generations"....folks who preen, prance and dance and look for recognition...it isn't the team,it is all about them. And, with the transfer portal, maybe increasingly difficult to coach...just take my football where I am appreciated.

It is part and parcel of our national preoccuption with, and seemingly insatiable demand for celebrity. And TV...where we watch college sports so student athletes compare themselves to NFL players since they provide a similar entertainment commodity.
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Re: FYI

Postby billybud » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm

And it is darn hard to feel sorry for some who make music...those that sell live in multimillion dollar mansions and have fleets of cars.
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Re: FYI

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:37 pm

billybud wrote:And...let's not count the $100,000 plus tuition for education, covered housing costs, food at the training tables etc....there is something of value that these kids receive.


Not to mention, pre-professional football training, and development.

There are Pre College QB camps that charge as much as $100,000 per summer of training. And some of these kids go to those camps in between college seasons.

The type of hands on development is unparalleled to what they would get elsewhere.

.
.
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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: FYI

Postby donovan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:55 pm

How about having a minor league NFL and get colleges out of the business. Let them major in College Football. Let them be like Teachers and Drs. and Engineers and Accountants and everyone else in school. Take out student loans of 100K to play college football. And then let the school make money off them, do they all the rest.

I think I will improve on this thought.
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Re: FYI

Postby Cane from the Bend » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:17 am

billybud wrote:And it is darn hard to feel sorry for some who make music...those that sell live in multimillion dollar mansions and have fleets of cars.


There's a reason why only so many are able to stay in the spotlight. The promoters who push some artists do so at the beckon of the Labels direction. Those who make millions, are few. The majority of musicians leave the business, because they were passed by for someone else ... often times people who tend to be less talented, but more marketable.

The difference, however; Musicians who are successful, and become millionaires, do so by touring. They don't make much money for the album sales.

These student athletes make no percentage of the ticket sales for their performance. So, they are going to need someone looking out for their interests. And I do not believe politicians when they claim that's what their motivations are.

.
.
.
Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: FYI

Postby billybud » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:47 am

And stage actors don't get paid like a film actor....and real estate lawyers don't make the moola of the guys who specialize in wrongful death and injury....and a great newspaper journalist doesn't get near what a talking head on a network news gets.

Music artists make money by entertaining....even rappers like Nas, Rev Run, Birdman, Akon, Timbaland...and on...all have net worths north of $75 million.

If you ain't making money...you ain't entertaining.
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Re: FYI

Postby billybud » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:59 am

We listen to live music three nights a week...some local guys make their living playing/singing...the rest supplement and have other jobs.

It doesn't matter how good you are...you have to write your own music...be very talented...and be very lucky to break through. Several of our friends have been on the Voice and a couple more played in Nashville for some years but didn't break through.

A million kids play pee wee baseball and dream of being in the "show"....a very small percentage live out that dream. Our high school pitcher beat MLB Hall of Famer Don Sutton in the district playoff...ole Charlie Pfeiffer spent ten years in the minors and Don Sutton had a great MLB career.

Is there any rhyme or reason why some (like the rappers I mentioned) have $70 million plus net worth while other very talented guys scrambles to make a living?

It just is what it is...
“If short hair and good manners won football games, Army and Navy would play for the national championship every year.”


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