Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

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Mountainman
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby Mountainman » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:43 pm

Are University Presidents a.k.a. ‘Eunuchs’ serving the best interests of College Football going forward with their current demonstrated decision making methodology of ‘Grab the money first and we’ll deal with whatever the consequences are at a later date’???
Last edited by Mountainman on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:20 pm

collegefbfan-8898 wrote:1. Would a program ever be considered a dynasty if it never won a national title? Like 10-12 win seasons, conference championships, bowl wins, but never the big one.


I don't know the answer to that ...

If UCF continues to win 10 games or more a season for the next 7 or 8 years, do they get consideration..?

Or does said team have to be in the Power5, and meet some sort of media/social status quo before they receive those accolades.?.


collegefbfan-8898 wrote:2. Would you rather "your" team beat its rival 10 seasons straight but never win a national title, or beat your rival one season out of ten and win one national title?


No doubt; I would much rather win the rivalry games ...

Winning 1 title in ten years would be less satisfying than rising to a position to compete at that level annually.

Miami is playing Florida to start the 2019 season. The road to the National Championship for Miami & FSU is through their regular season game. And as much as I enjoy winning that game, I would downright Love to skin the lizards on August 31rst.

Miami has played the gators 20 times since I was born, in 1974. The `Canes have won 12 of those games. We've won 8 of the last 10 vs the swamp rats, and 11 of the last 15.

We don't play them every year, like fsu. But, I can take pleasure in watching Derek's Dawgs beat them, when Georgia wins the Cocktail Party.

There has never been a 10 year streak in either series with the 'nole or gators. So 10 straight victories in state ... gimme that.

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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby billybud » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:56 pm

It is kind of confusing for Nole fans..

Who is your main rival?

For almost all, the answer is Florida....for some younger fans, it is Miami.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby donovan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:36 pm

Oregon and Oregon State have always been hardcore rivals. Even a time when Oregon State was generally a better football club. Lately, not so. But in other sports OSU absolutely holds their own.

Washington and Washington State are cut-throat rivals...

You know this in both states because if one team advances the state does not rally together. Never let the enemy win, even when you are dead.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:12 pm

---
Spence wrote:
donovan wrote:Understanding dynasties make last for a long time, but not forever, there are football dynasties that have never won a national title. (Until a few years ago there was not National Title, just people giving their opinion whether by polling or just water-cooler conversation. Here are a few "dynasties" that come to mind, they may not be now, but have been in my lifetime. Grambling, USC, UCLA, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Florida State, Michigan, Army, Navy...just a few.

I would rather win my conference and the bowl game associated with the conference. My life has always been, win the Rose Bowl and there was nothing better. That was then now is now.


The Rose Still matters in Big 10 country too. The playoff actually makes it harder for some teams to get there now. I agree will Donovan's take on football Dynasties.


As for playing in the Rose Bowl ...

It was nice that Miami got to play in the game. Even better that we won our sole appearance at the venue. Even more Fantastic that we beat Nebraska, and did so for the National Championship.

To me, though; the Orange Bowl has always been my Favored game. Maybe it had something to do with it having been Miami's home field for so many years. But, the environment, pageantry and build up was special.

It doesn't seem as special these days, however. The Tradition of the Orange Bowl being a January 1rst game has been stripped away in lieu of the playoff. Now a December 29th game, not even New Year's Eve [much to the same with the Peach Bowl].

At least the Rose Bowl committee said no to changing their date when propositioned by the playoff [payoff] board.

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Last edited by Cane from the Bend on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:13 pm

collegefbfan-8898 wrote:I am cool with that. Hey, I just watched an interesting video on YouTube about Colorado Buffaloes and the 2001 season. I knew the season ending thumping of Nebraska, but didn't know the whole deal about 9/11 messing up the game with Washington State.

So, BCS national title then. Should it have been Miami vs Oregon, Colorado, or Nebraska? It another team?



Another game that is considered a rivalry in storied terms, Miami-Nebraska, due purely to Post Season competition against each other.

You're right that the legitimacy of Nebraska's appearance in the 2001 Rose Bowl is questionable. But, to beat "them" for the title, and having a 34-0 lead at the half, was more than satisfying. Especially after hearing that Miami plays no body, doesn't deserve to be in the game, and Nebraska was going to crush the Hurricanes --- talk from the Big XII fans.

That being said; Colorado had finished the season beating #1 Nebraska, taking their place in the Big XII Championship one week later, where the Buffaloes beat #2 Texas, winning back to back games vs the #1 & #2 teams in the BCS --- they also beat #24 Colorado St, #12 Kansas St and #25 Texas A&M, in the regular season.

That certainly is credible, but Colorado's 2 losses from the regular season hurt their chances. True, one of their losses was to Texas, who they turned around and defeated for the Big Xii title. But, the loss to Fresno State in week one was too much to overcome.

Oregon would have been another credible option. They finished the season 10-1, starting the season pre-ranked #7, with a win over #22 pre-ranked Wisconsin in week one. They also had wins vs #10 Washington State & #17 UCLA.

Their drawback was losing to unranked Stanford in week 7.

Nebraska was a preseason ranked #4 team, who ran through their schedule, until they hit a wall in the last game of the year vs Colorado. The Huskers beat #15 Notre Dame and #1 Oklahoma [the defending National Champions] during the regular season.

So to peel back the layers, we have to see how the final rankings unfolded.

Here's the thing. Going into that final week, the National Championship projections, were, if Oklahoma had won out, they would play in the Big XII Championship vs Nebraska. If Oklahoma were to beat Nebraska for the Big XII title, then they would jump back up to #1. And we would have had a National title Rematch between Oklahoma & Nebraska, for a 3rd pairing between the teams in the same season --- Miami, even though they were undefeated, would have been left out of the Championship game.

Had Nebraska won the rematch vs Oklahoma for the Big XII Championship, the National title game would have been Nebraska vs Miami [which is what we got anyway]

Other teams waiting in the wings, were #3 Florida, #5 Texas and #6 Tennessee.

That's when things went sideways.

Oklahoma lost to Oklahoma State
Nebraska lost to Colorado

Miami being undefeated, took the #1 ranking.

Florida became #2, leaving them in prime position to play for the National Championship, but then lost to Tennessee.

Tennessee jumped over Texas to become the #2 team. All they needed, was to beat LSU for the SEC title, and they would play Miami for National Championship.

Championship Weekend:
Tennessee lost to LSU, leaving Texas with the chance to play for the National title
Texas lost to Colorado, leaving a mess for the BCS committee.

Now the choices were Oregon, Colorado & Nebraska.

Oregon had 1 loss to an unranked team.

Colorado had 2 losses, one of which had been avenged by beating Texas in the Big XII Championship, but the other to a non BCS conference team in Fresno State, which figure to be a final record that had 1.5 losses.

Nebraska had 1 loss to the #12 team in the BCS.

Nebraska's loss happened in the final game of the regular season, where Oregon's loss came in the middle of the year.

However, with the BCS formula, the final analysis did not use timing of loss a team suffered. It would measure every loss as a data point the same.

Colorado was bumped because of Fresno State, no question. But, Oregon being left out had to do with Stanford's lack of ranking. Even though Nebraska got obliterated by Colorado, it was 1 loss to a ranked team, so they got the benefit of the BCS system, the same way Oklahoma benefited from the BCS by playing vs LSU for the National title following the 2003 season, where the Sooners were let in, as USC was left out.

I suppose you could make an argument for any of those 3 teams. Maybe you could suggest a game between Miami & Oregon would have been more entertaining. Then again, had Colorado beaten Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl, the argument would have been, wouldn't they have.

Personally, I think it wouldn't have mattered who played against Miami in the Rose. I don't think there was a team that could have beaten the Hurricanes in the post season in 2001.

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Last edited by Cane from the Bend on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby billybud » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 am

The Miami teams with Ken Dorsey at QB were very good.

Dorsey was not the typical athletic specimen...his arm was not a cannon...he was smart and tough.

"PASADENA, Calif. -- His wrists are as wide as shoestrings. The rest of his arm would faint if it ever saw a bicep. His neck is straight out of the Ichabod Crane catalog. And that's now. You should have seen Ken Dorsey in the summer of 1999, when he first arrived on the Miami campus."


I enjoyed watching the kid drop in passes like with a bomb site. Just not against FSU.

His pro career was pretty pedestrian, but I was pulling for him to be "the guy" at San Francisco.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby Spence » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:49 am

Dorsey just wasn't athletic enough to make it in the NFL. He was a great college QB, though, for the reasons you stated. He had a lot of heart and no give up in him.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby collegefbfan-8898 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:56 am

Should Rex Grossman had won the Heisman in 2001?

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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby billybud » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:05 pm

collegefbfan-8898 wrote:Should Rex Grossman had won the Heisman in 2001?


He lost to unranked Auburn, throwing four interceptions...lost to underdog Tennessee...and thus Florida didn't win the division or play in the CCG..

No Heisman...great QB, but lost crucial games.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby collegefbfan-8898 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:09 pm

Thanks billybud. I didn't know the specifics since I started watching college about that time. I tell you what... He could surely float a pass into his receivers hands like laying a loaf of bread in there.

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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:35 pm

billybud wrote:
collegefbfan-8898 wrote:Should Rex Grossman had won the Heisman in 2001?


He lost to unranked Auburn, throwing four interceptions...lost to underdog Tennessee...and thus Florida didn't win the division or play in the CCG..

No Heisman...great QB, but lost crucial games.


Yeah, I don't think Grossman should have won either. But I also don't think Eric Crouch should have won the Trophy.

He was a runner more than a passer, as with the Nebraska style of play in those days. He did have a win vs #1 Oklahoma; but his passing numbers were low. He did run for 1,115 Yards and 18 Touchdowns. As a passer, he only threw for 7 Touchdowns, with 12 regular season games, was less than 1 TD per game.

You could say that Crouch was the most important player on the 2001 Huskers team. Though, by that measure, Ken Dorsey was just as important to the Hurricanes.

Personally, I think Crouch won, because he was a Senior, and the voters knew Dorsey had another year to play and win the trophy.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for two worthy souls:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy
In Memory of Donovan Davisson

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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby highfly24 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:33 pm

collegefbfan-8898 wrote:1. Would a program ever be considered a dynasty if it never won a national title? Like 10-12 win seasons, conference championships, bowl wins, but never the big one.
2. Would you rather "your" team beat its rival 10 seasons straight but never win a national title, or beat your rival one season out of ten and win one national title?


1. Maybe intro retrospect years down the road the accomplishments would be viewed more dynasty like. However, during the run, they wont get credit and respect for that. It will always be...but you didnt win. Or in the case of Boise State....you didn't beat enough good teams. Boise has met the qualifications you laid out for the better part of 15 years but I'm not sure anyone East of the Rockies ever call them a Dynasty. They have had a few down years in recent past but a lot of 10 win seasons/top 25 finishes going back to early 2000s. I think Donovan could address this more accurate than I. I've been far removed from the Pac Northwest for several years now.

2. I think if your a fan of certain P5 teams this would be more debatable. Being a fan of Army its all about Beat Navy! I want 10 straight...actually I want 15 and completely erase their consecutive streak. Army has zero chance of ever being in the playoff so I don't look at national championships. Winning the Commander in Chief is the highlight.

Be interesting to hear from fans of a team like USC. They have a level of arrogance, fed by the media, that the only thing that matters out West is L.A. and the team that controls it. Too bad the fans I've met, I don't talk to....eh no its not a bad thing at all now that I reflect.

Winning the Lambert trophy was a cool thing as well for Army. First time since 1958 they were awarded as the best team in the East.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby billybud » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:37 pm

FSU's official dynasty was when they went 14 straight years in the AP top five, and won more games in a decade than anyone ever had...BUT if they hadn't won two NC's, I doubt the dynasty label would have been applied.
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Re: Post Your "Make You Think" Questions

Postby donovan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:16 pm

I think Mr. Billybud is correct. A dynasty is not just a good run. Boise State has had some good runs. Their level of competition and play is not that of the Big Leagues. Football is a lot like Boxing, a lot of divisions and to say a welterweight is better than a heavyweight makes no sense. Some Flyweights dominated. Same goes for football, in the upper crust there are standouts, but probably should have lower levels be compared.
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