Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

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Mountainman
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:01 pm

donovan wrote:
Mountainman wrote:As far as this Court Decision is concerned, I’m hopeful it’s not a step toward legalizing the practices of the old Southwest Conference....... in creating conferences where recruits and players go to the highest bidder.

Image


That hope is years too late. These conversations are like putting cooked spaghetti back in the box.



...........are you saying it’s legal now or that it goes on now??? Cam Newton??!
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:07 pm

Certainly, it is legal, I would think. This a private enterprise and they can make their own rules. The body can sanction and excommunicate, but unless a law is broken it is not illegal.

Does it go on...? Yes, it does.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:23 pm

donovan wrote:Certainly, it is legal, I would think. This a private enterprise and they can make their own rules. The body can sanction and excommunicate, but unless a law is broken it is not illegal.

Does it go on...? Yes, it does.



Well then what’s all the fuss about...... just pay them under the table.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Spence » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:02 pm

Or make rules where they don't have to pay them under the table and hammer schools and coaches that break the rules. And yes - schools and coaches, not teams and players. Make those with the most to gain responsible. Leave the kids alone.

I view this much the same way as the illegal immigrant issue. If you want to stop it, quit punishing the people for trying to work. Punish the employers for hiring illegals. Make the people causing the problem responsible and provide access for those who really want to be part of society to be able to join us legally. Why punish people for who are looking to provide a better life for their families for doing something we all want to do?
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Cane from the Bend
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:07 pm

---

Now that is something I can get on board with.

And, why not allow these players to have on campus jobs. Then there wouldn't be any question of whether or not there were improper pay, because it would be directly tied to the university.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ... and then it becomes regulation ...

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:19 am

Cane from the Bend wrote:---

Now that is something I can get on board with.

And, why not allow these players to have on campus jobs. Then there wouldn't be any question of whether or not there were improper pay, because it would be directly tied to the university.

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Not totally. When they use to have jobs they would be like, sweep the basketball court for which their were 10 to do the job and they paid them 30 bucks an hour. Goes on and on. Big wages, feigned the work. That is why just pay them a stipend. Stop the insanity.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:32 am

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:52 am

Mountainman wrote:
donovan wrote:
Mountainman wrote:As far as this Court Decision is concerned, I’m hopeful it’s not a step toward legalizing the practices of the old Southwest Conference....... in creating conferences where recruits and players go to the highest bidder.

Image


That hope is years too late. These conversations are like putting cooked spaghetti back in the box.



...........are you saying it’s legal now or that it goes on now??? Cam Newton??!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ozvgPVSKPY

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.
.
Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ... and then it becomes regulation ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for one worthy soul:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy

Mountainman
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:03 pm

Cane from the Bend wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
donovan wrote:
Mountainman wrote:As far as this Court Decision is concerned, I’m hopeful it’s not a step toward legalizing the practices of the old Southwest Conference....... in creating conferences where recruits and players go to the highest bidder.

Image


That hope is years too late. These conversations are like putting cooked spaghetti back in the box.



...........are you saying it’s legal now or that it goes on now??? Cam Newton??!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ozvgPVSKPY

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So, what happened after this came to light???


Specifically, to the player, the coaches, the Athletic Department, the University, the SEC???
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:19 pm

This is what my take on what happened and still happens. The Presidents gave their responsibility for University athletics to the NCAA. They now can only comply, not make decisions that may be best for their institution.

Now here is the core problem. The NCAA represents both the student and the University. That is it in a nutshell. The lawyer represents the hens and the foxes.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

Mountainman
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:33 pm

donovan wrote:This is what my take on what happened and still happens. The Presidents gave their responsibility for University athletics to the NCAA. They now can only comply, not make decisions that may be best for their institution.

Now here is the core problem. The NCAA represents both the student and the University. That is it in a nutshell. The lawyer represents the hens and the foxes.



Plausible deniability - is the ability of people to deny knowledge of or responsibility for any darn actions committed by others in an organizational hierarchy because of a lack of evidence that can confirm their participation, even if they were personally involved in or at least willfully ignorant of the actions.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:42 pm

---

If you recall the NCAA sanctions against Ole Miss; those were the result of this.

Ole Miss players were allowed to transfer without loss of eligible years of playing time [which many did].

The loss of 13 scholarships, as well as a second ban from post season play.

What the NCAA did about the other SEC schools ... Nothing.

His mother was recorded by the Ole Miss bagman, without her knowing. She went on to tell him how much other schools offered.

LSU offered $60,000 for his signing. They were never investigated.

Mississippi State offered $80, 000. They were not investigated, even though they were the team that signed him.

And we're talking about just one player here. A guy who was an nfl 2cnd round draft talent --- So, how much do you suspect Alabama pays out annually on signing day..?

Look at the numbers Billybud had shown about where `Bama ranked each year Saban has been at the school. It's hard to convince these kids that playing for your team is worth it, before the success. You can pretend it's because of the current success the Tide has been enjoying. But what about before they got to where they are..?

Ole Miss, with Freeze, was touted as having the #1 recruiting class. But all of the focus by the NCAA Investigation was on a guy who turned them down to play at Missi State.

Let's not pretend this isn't happening everywhere, though. It's just, some schools have deeper reservoirs of boosters who don't think objectionably about it, than other schools. Even among the elites.

These boosters think; Everyone else is doing it, so let's offer more.

To them, it is not a matter of integrity. Since it is happening at all of the major colleges, it's a normality.

The problem is, the NCAA is made up of people who shuffle around from College AD's to NCAA Committee Representatives. Many of which have served as AD at multiple institutions prior to landing in the NCAA offices.

They already know it's going on. Because they were all a part of it at one time or another. To lay any sanctions on a school for this practice is pure hypocrisy.

Usually, they only bring down the hammer when an outside source reveals misdoings. Because that puts a spotlight on the common practice. So, the NCAA hits the school with violation penalties, as a facade to keep up appearances that they are doing their job.

The only way it stops, is if someone says, enough is enough, and challenges the NCAA altogether, exposing them for the fraud they are, and taking down the whole of the system.

In Donovan's method, where you pay the players some stipend, nothing gets resolved. Because these schools will still have the boosters giving cash to players on the side, on top of what their monthly gratuity gives them.

.
.
.
Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ... and then it becomes regulation ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for one worthy soul:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy

Mountainman
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:36 pm

:| Speaking of bagmen.......... watched a little bit of the Paul Finebaum Show today. Seems Finebaum dumped on Notre Dame the other day for being in the playoff and said that Georgia should have been in instead of the Irish.
A guy called into the show today while I was watching, and this guy was a Notre Dame Fan. He asked Finebaum about what he had said about the Irish and immediately Finebaum started crawdadin’(for you non-hillbilly types, that means he started backing-up) by saying that he said it blah, blah, blah and was teasing an employee in the studio. The Notre Dame guy said ‘Oh, is that right....... well, I see where Georgia had a good day recruiting today.’ Finebaum replied, ‘Yes, they did.’ The Notre Dame guy then said, ‘Looks like the Georgia Coaches and their bagmen have been busy down there.’ Finebaum thanked the guy for his call, hungup and broke for a commercial. :wink:
Last edited by Mountainman on Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Spence » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:53 pm

The NCAA absolutely knows what is going on and they only do something about it when a school lets something slip publicly. The NCAA only does enough to keep every one quiet. The NCAA protects the schools, even though on the surface they appear not to be on their side. They always punish the athletes. One way or another the kids are the only ones that get hurt. A football playoff is there to placate the masses appearing to settle things on the field when things were actually settled in a committee meeting. The NCAA isn't a governing body for schools they are a marketing firm for the schools and they generate over a billion dollars in funding for their member schools every year and they do it on the backs of the players. The NCAA and the schools are working feverishly trying to devise a plan to keep the train rolling and the kids in line so they can keep the money in house.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:17 am

Cane from the Bend wrote:---


In Donovan's method, where you pay the players some stipend, nothing gets resolved. Because these schools will still have the boosters giving cash to players on the side, on top of what their monthly gratuity gives them.

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My method has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It is real that when students do not have incidental money they can not stay in school. A stipend helps poor kids with talent to accept scholarships. That's all.


Though in football the South like to believe they are the only programs in existence but I can assure you NCAA violations are alive and well.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."


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