Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

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Spence
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Spence » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:50 am

donovan wrote:
Cane from the Bend wrote:---


In Donovan's method, where you pay the players some stipend, nothing gets resolved. Because these schools will still have the boosters giving cash to players on the side, on top of what their monthly gratuity gives them.

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My method has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It is real that when students do not have incidental money they can not stay in school. A stipend helps poor kids with talent to accept scholarships. That's all.


Though in football the South like to believe they are the only programs in existence but I can assure you NCAA violations are alive and well.


That is correct. The only way to actually fix the system is to move big time minor league football under the control of the NFL and pay the players and for the colleges to fund actual amateur athletics that use athletes that are there to get an education. I'm not sure any of us actually want that because we like the level of play. The thing that leaves the bad taste in all of our mouths is the hypocrisy of the NCAA, the athletic departments, and the administrations of the schools who preach doing things the right way and the importance of getting an education while profiting on the backs of the athletes and all of the other students.

My oldest daughter is in her third year of a five year masters program at a school in Ohio right now and the lengths they go to extract every bit of cash they can from her is ridiculous. They don't have books any more, they charge kids thousands of dollars for cheap copies from a printer. She tried to get an RA job to have her room and board paid in exchange for doing the job, but the school picks kids already getting government assistance for those jobs because they are already getting that money so two birds one stone. They did string her along for two years in a volunteer situation before telling her that her two years of service as a volunteer working up to 30-50 hours a week didn't have any bearing on her getting hired for a job over a first year student that was already going to school for free. I tell you this to emphasize that the schools are not in it to help students in the least. They are only protecting the machine that keeps putting money in their pockets.
It is a very different atmosphere than when I was in school in the late 70's and early 80's. We had real books. The business of education back then was still about school and learning. Now it is about finding ways to extract more money from the kids. They used to just hit up alumni for that sort of thing.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:29 am

Spence wrote:
donovan wrote:
Cane from the Bend wrote:---


In Donovan's method, where you pay the players some stipend, nothing gets resolved. Because these schools will still have the boosters giving cash to players on the side, on top of what their monthly gratuity gives them.

.
.
.


My method has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It is real that when students do not have incidental money they can not stay in school. A stipend helps poor kids with talent to accept scholarships. That's all.


Though in football the South like to believe they are the only programs in existence but I can assure you NCAA violations are alive and well.


That is correct. The only way to actually fix the system is to move big time minor league football under the control of the NFL and pay the players and for the colleges to fund actual amateur athletics that use athletes that are there to get an education. I'm not sure any of us actually want that because we like the level of play. The thing that leaves the bad taste in all of our mouths is the hypocrisy of the NCAA, the athletic departments, and the administrations of the schools who preach doing things the right way and the importance of getting an education while profiting on the backs of the athletes and all of the other students.


.........’hypocrisy of the NCAA, the athletic departments, and the administrations of the schools.....’. Really???? :roll:

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/03/ncaa-lo ... rust-case/
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Spence » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:11 am

The NCAA is the biggest joke in college athletics. They make archaic rules and punish kids from most sports for getting free pizza then let North Carolina get away with running a completely fraudulent basketball program. North Carolina basically dared them to do something about it. Don't mess with the cash cow.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:38 am

Spence wrote:The NCAA is the biggest joke in college athletics. They make archaic rules and punish kids from most sports for getting free pizza then let North Carolina get away with running a completely fraudulent basketball program. North Carolina basically dared them to do something about it. Don't mess with the cash cow.


Amen. HIgh School student-athletes that want to get a scholarship must register with the NCAA for a fee of 90 dollars. Look up the number that register and the number that get scholarships and you will see what a scam that is.
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"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:45 am

The UNC scandal puzzles folks who are not familiar with law, rule, and regulation versus what is right.

When I used to issue a decision as an administrative law judge, that decision was based on found facts and the points of law. The NCAA made a correct decision based on the found facts and the NCAA regulations. That correct decision upsets many

UNC hit the seam..a loophole.

When the NCAA determined that the African Studies Department had "paperless" classes and students did not have to attend...they also found that the same applied to the non athlete students. The university basically let the African Studies class do their own thing without the usual oversight.

This was a failure of the academic administration.

Thus it became an academic oversight problem thrown to the realm of accreditation agencies and not a course solely set up to give athletes a special benefit....although it was certainly used to further the aims of the athletic programs.

The NCAA found...

"Committee on Infractions head for the NCAA, Greg Sankey, stated "While student-athletes likely benefited from the so-called 'paper courses' offered by North Carolina, the information available in the record did not establish that the courses were solely created, offered and maintained as an orchestrated effort to benefit student-athletes."

Thus..the NCAA, following their own rules, hit a massive PR problem....
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:56 am

billybud wrote:The UNC scandal puzzles folks who are not familiar with law, rule, and regulation versus what is right.

When I used to issue a decision as an administrative law judge, that decision was based on found facts and the points of law. The NCAA made a correct decision based on the found facts and the NCAA regulations. That correct decision upsets many

UNC hit the seam..a loophole.

When the NCAA determined that the African Studies Department had "paperless" classes and students did not have to attend...they also found that the same applied to the non athlete students. The university basically let the African Studies class do their own thing without the usual oversight.

This was a failure of the academic administration.

Thus it became an academic oversight problem thrown to the realm of accreditation agencies and not a course solely set up to give athletes a special benefit....although it was certainly used to further the aims of the athletic programs.

The NCAA found...

"Committee on Infractions head for the NCAA, Greg Sankey, stated "While student-athletes likely benefited from the so-called 'paper courses' offered by North Carolina, the information available in the record did not establish that the courses were solely created, offered and maintained as an orchestrated effort to benefit student-athletes."

Thus..the NCAA, following their own rules, hit a massive PR problem....




So, all the coaches at Louisville had to do was to have the prostitutes take on a few students and Hugh Freeze should have had the bagmen at Old Miss pass out a few dollars to students at the Student Union and Will Greer should have just shown where other students bought a supplement at GNC and took a banned substance too...... there you go, problem solved. :roll:

.......... I’m working through suspending students for the current semester and the next semester in the event the replay guys determine they target another student during intramural flag football. :wink:
Last edited by Mountainman on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby billybud » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:05 am

Folks often give emotional responses to what was a question of law, rule, and regulation.

But organizations have to go by rule and regulation, not emotion.

But that is us in America..like It is against the law to climb over the border fence....but many react emotionally to the enforcement of that law.
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:26 am

billybud wrote:Folks often give emotional responses to what was a question of law, rule, and regulation.

But organizations have to go by rule and regulation, not emotion.

But that is us in America..like It is against the law to climb over the border fence....but many react emotionally to the enforcement of that law.



........and many also react emotionally to the arbitrary UNenforcement of the law.
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:24 am

But if you believe the King does not have the right to govern, that is a different issue. Mr. Billybud, and I suspect correct, that the NCAA has to authority to govern. They were given it by the Universities. So they can rule however they want, by rule, by law, hook or crook. Mr. Billybud's arguments seem reasonable. But that is not the issue. And he knows it.

How the NCAA become so corrupt they no longer should be in existence. They certainly do not represent the student.

. . . "Let the jury consider their verdict," the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice loudly. "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.
"Who cares for you?" said Alice. (She had grown to her full size by this time.) "You're nothing but a pack of cards!"
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:46 am

.........ever wonder why all of a sudden and out of the blue the NCAA dramatically modified the Student-Athlete Transfer Rules???

If so, just pay attention, I suspect you’re about to find out....... :wink:
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Spence » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:35 am

Mountainman wrote:.........ever wonder why all of a sudden and out of the blue the NCAA dramatically modified the Student-Athlete Transfer Rules???

If so, just pay attention, I suspect you’re about to find out....... :wink:


Yep. The golden goose is slipping away. They are trying to find out how to keep it happy.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby donovan » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:10 am

Millennials, by in large, do not believe in capitalism. They are not going to be bound by rules that put them hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to be educated and medical attention that no one can afford.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."
"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice "The idea of having the sentence first!"
"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.
"I won't!" said Alice.
"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice."

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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Mountainman » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:09 am

donovan wrote:Millennials, by in large, do not believe in capitalism. They are not going to be bound by rules that put them hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to be educated and medical attention that no one can afford.



Millennials don’t know what they want....... all they know is that they want. :?
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Re: Meanwhile, Back in the Courtroom.......

Postby Derek » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:01 pm

Mountainman wrote:
donovan wrote:Millennials, by in large, do not believe in capitalism. They are not going to be bound by rules that put them hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to be educated and medical attention that no one can afford.



Millennials don’t know what they want....... all they know is that they want. :?


Unfortunately I believe you are both correct. I have never seen a group of people that has so easily bought in to the "group think" of populist politics. And I doubt there has ever been a generation of kids that fold so easily under adversity. More than half are ill prepared to be tomorrow leaders. :cry:
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