Week 13 Elucidations

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Mountainman
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Mountainman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:16 am

Man, you just gotta love this board....... where else can you actually have a ‘conversation’ about a hot topic where there are various thoughts and perspectives and means and methods being discussed, and everybody is right.

So, what’s the solution, I don’t know....... but, the Mountainman, at this point believes two things. First, the powers to be don’t know which end of a cow to milk. And next, there should be a ‘play in’ to the ‘playoff’.

.......and I’m working on a notion of ‘flexible regular season scheduling’. :shock:

I not a real fan of this guy, but putting that aside, that does mean he can’t write a relevant article:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ebate-yet/


P.S. “Yes” is the answer to the question Donovan is asking about does moonshine kill brain cells. :D
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby donovan » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:35 pm

First: From Merian Webster
Words Related to moonshine
absurdity, asininity, fatuity, foolery, idiocy, imbecility, inaneness, inanity, insanity, kookiness, lunacy
absurdness, craziness, madness, senselessness, witlessness
hoity-toity, monkey business, monkeyshine(s), shenanigan(s), tomfoolery
gas, hot air, rigmarole (also rigamarole)
double-talk, greek, hocus-pocus (I particularly like, though certainly not applicable, "imbecility."

Second:
I, personally, do not want playoffs. Have always been a supporter of regional athletics, conference championships, each conference decides, dedicated bowl games and water-cooler National Champions. On Jan. 2 we watch basketball and look forward to Spring Training.

With that said...If you are going to have a championship when you can't have a playoff. (Would be playing football into April.) Seed the teams prior to the season. Use some criteria to give every team a seeding. Then when schedules are made you used those wins and loses based on the rating. This is patently unfair. But how different is that with games scheduled 10 years in advance and SOS changing more than Cane does his TV Channels every Saturday.

Use the seeding criterion over the past ten years of the program. That is fair to teams that have developed and does not penalize teams that have an off year.
As I age it is hard to tell if I am inspired by reasoned passion or arthritic knees; most likely it is arthritic reasoning.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Spence » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:19 pm

Mountainman wrote:Man, you just gotta love this board....... where else can you actually have a ‘conversation’ about a hot topic where there are various thoughts and perspectives and means and methods being discussed, and everybody is right.

So, what’s the solution, I don’t know....... but, the Mountainman, at this point believes two things. First, the powers to be don’t know which end of a cow to milk. And next, there should be a ‘play in’ to the ‘playoff’.

.......and I’m working on a notion of ‘flexible regular season scheduling’. :shock:


P.S. “Yes” is the answer to the question Donovan is asking about does moonshine kill brain cells. :D



I actually came up with a flexible regular season schedule a few years ago that would have made the old BCS version work. It would have required teams who finished 1st in their conference to play two Power 5 and two group of 5 counter parts as their OOC schedule. I also have said if they are going to use a playoff format then they could go to 4- 24 team conferences and the first round of the playoffs would be the conference championship. Then the second would be the semi's like now, and the 3rd would be the finals. None of that works though because the power 5's do not want to lose control of the process and they won't give up control.

You could argue that the playoffs have created a wider disparity between teams because the fact that there are basically 6 teams in the country that can regularly make the playoffs as they are now and those 6 teams are going to get a huge percentage of the top 100 players. Not only has that happened, but this system has made Alabama a "super team" because even the other teams of their pier group can't guarantee a spot every year like they can. Alabama can lose their final two games and make the playoffs. That isn't true for any other team in college football.

Eric is right that we need new blood. But I think the committee needs to be removed to make a tournament of champions to make it happen. Only when every conference- every single conference- has a dog in the fight will it allow for the kind of new blood to keep the system healthy. It is not healthy. If Northwestern wins in Indy this week do they get a seat at the table? Why? They are played more consistent football than anyone in the B1G this year. But they have no shot. Ohio State beats them by 14+ this week and they probably go. Does Ohio State have better talent? I don't know, they have more depth for sure. Same goes for Oklahoma, only to a lesser degree, they got beat by Texas, who is a average team with a pedigree. The point is unless there is a way to look at all teams the same and then distinguish their differences, it can't be done they way they think they are doing it. A tournament of champions or back to the bowls is the way to go. Neither is exactly fair to everyone, but everyone has a fair shot.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Mountainman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:35 pm

donovan wrote:First: From Merian Webster
Words Related to moonshine
absurdity, asininity, fatuity, foolery, idiocy, imbecility, inaneness, inanity, insanity, kookiness, lunacy
absurdness, craziness, madness, senselessness, witlessness
hoity-toity, monkey business, monkeyshine(s), shenanigan(s), tomfoolery
gas, hot air, rigmarole (also rigamarole)
double-talk, greek, hocus-pocus (I particularly like, though certainly not applicable, "imbecility."

Second:
I, personally, do not want playoffs. Have always been a supporter of regional athletics, conference championships, each conference decides, dedicated bowl games and water-cooler National Champions. On Jan. 2 we watch basketball and look forward to Spring Training.

With that said...If you are going to have a championship when you can't have a playoff. (Would be playing football into April.) Seed the teams prior to the season. Use some criteria to give every team a seeding. Then when schedules are made you used those wins and loses based on the rating. This is patently unfair. But how different is that with games scheduled 10 years in advance and SOS changing more than Cane does his TV Channels every Saturday.

Use the seeding criterion over the past ten years of the program. That is fair to teams that have developed and does not penalize teams that have an off year.



Imbecility - the act of coming-up with desperate solutions to ridiculous freakin’ problems created by stupid freakin’ people. :wink:
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby donovan » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:14 pm

:mrgreen:
As I age it is hard to tell if I am inspired by reasoned passion or arthritic knees; most likely it is arthritic reasoning.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Mountainman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Spence wrote:
Mountainman wrote:Man, you just gotta love this board....... where else can you actually have a ‘conversation’ about a hot topic where there are various thoughts and perspectives and means and methods being discussed, and everybody is right.

So, what’s the solution, I don’t know....... but, the Mountainman, at this point believes two things. First, the powers to be don’t know which end of a cow to milk. And next, there should be a ‘play in’ to the ‘playoff’.

.......and I’m working on a notion of ‘flexible regular season scheduling’. :shock:


P.S. “Yes” is the answer to the question Donovan is asking about does moonshine kill brain cells. :D



I actually came up with a flexible regular season schedule a few years ago that would have made the old BCS version work. It would have required teams who finished 1st in their conference to play two Power 5 and two group of 5 counter parts as their OOC schedule. I also have said if they are going to use a playoff format then they could go to 4- 24 team conferences and the first round of the playoffs would be the conference championship. Then the second would be the semi's like now, and the 3rd would be the finals. None of that works though because the power 5's do not want to lose control of the process and they won't give up control.

You could argue that the playoffs have created a wider disparity between teams because the fact that there are basically 6 teams in the country that can regularly make the playoffs as they are now and those 6 teams are going to get a huge percentage of the top 100 players. Not only has that happened, but this system has made Alabama a "super team" because even the other teams of their pier group can't guarantee a spot every year like they can. Alabama can lose their final two games and make the playoffs. That isn't true for any other team in college football.

Eric is right that we need new blood. But I think the committee needs to be removed to make a tournament of champions to make it happen. Only when every conference- every single conference- has a dog in the fight will it allow for the kind of new blood to keep the system healthy. It is not healthy. If Northwestern wins in Indy this week do they get a seat at the table? Why? They are played more consistent football than anyone in the B1G this year. But they have no shot. Ohio State beats them by 14+ this week and they probably go. Does Ohio State have better talent? I don't know, they have more depth for sure. Same goes for Oklahoma, only to a lesser degree, they got beat by Texas, who is a average team with a pedigree. The point is unless there is a way to look at all teams the same and then distinguish their differences, it can't be done they way they think they are doing it. A tournament of champions or back to the bowls is the way to go. Neither is exactly fair to everyone, but everyone has a fair shot.



Good Stuff...... I’m workin’ on it though a different lens, or in the parlance of my moonshine sipping ancestors “the end of the cow that doesn’t moooooo”.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby donovan » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:00 pm

I thought you moonshiners had goats.
As I age it is hard to tell if I am inspired by reasoned passion or arthritic knees; most likely it is arthritic reasoning.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Mountainman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:33 pm

donovan wrote:I thought you moonshiners had goats.




Hogs...... gotta git shed of the spent mash. Goats stagger, hogs just go lay in the mud and grunt. 8)
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Mountainman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:31 pm

Hey, just saw where the landing of NASA’s InSight spacecraft on Mars is on at 7:00 pm Eastern Time this evening........ sure didn’t want any of you guys to miss it, especially since there’s nothing else of interest on at that time. :lol:
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Spence » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:02 pm

Mountainman wrote:
donovan wrote:I thought you moonshiners had goats.




Hogs...... gotta git shed of the spent mash. Goats stagger, hogs just go lay in the mud and grunt. 8)


Now that is funny right there.
Goats don’t have much of a survival instinct. They get a bellyache and they will just lay down, quit eating and drink, dehydrate and die.

I’ll Be lookin for the lime green men.
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:37 pm

---

Mountainman wrote:Imbecility - the act of coming-up with desperate solutions to ridiculous freakin’ problems created by stupid freakin’ people. :wink:


And you just described the playoff committee.


Mountainman wrote:Hey, just saw where the landing of NASA’s InSight spacecraft on Mars is on at 7:00 pm Eastern Time this evening........ sure didn’t want any of you guys to miss it, especially since there’s nothing else of interest on at that time. :lol:


Not so sure they are mutually exclusive from each other ... by watching this, you might just find yourself looking through the windows of the board room, where a big screen to teleconference with Rece Davis can be seen.

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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Eric » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:16 pm

I was going to say what you said, Spence, about the playoff system cementing the dynasties, but I thought that it was trending that way prior to the playoff. Bama and Ohio State were winning at unprecedented rates (save for Donovan's Boise State, which is a can of worms unto itself :lol: ). I would say that the playoff system exacerbated it though. Nothing short of a coaching earthquake at Ohio State, Clemson, or Alabama will shake it up. Which will happen eventually, but until that freak day comes, nothing will change. I feel back in the 2000's, a team like Clemson could wane on a natural course of ups and downs. Now, it's going to be a total uphill climb for Florida State or Miami to take control back in the ACC since Clemson gets so much positive recruiting vibes from its easy path to the playoff. And then it's just a vicious cycle.

What is a team like Auburn going to do being in Alabama's shadow? Yes it's Malzahn's job to recruit and he has to make due with what he gets. But he can't possibly walk into 5-star and 4-star athletes' houses and convince them that Auburn's situation is superior to Alabama's. He'll get a few that he convinces due to a multitude of reasons, but he can never match Alabama. It's a numbers game. Recruiting against Ohio State (as a midwest team), Bama, and Clemson isn't impossible, but you can't do it consistently and in strong enough numbers. Georgia and now Texas A&M are the only southern teams that are hanging with Alabama in recruiting, but in order for them to make noise in the playoff, they have to get through Alabama on the field.

Ultimately joining a football program is 100% dependent on what the recruit wants to do, but we need multiple teams that have a lot going for them to spread it out. Basically recruiting is like if you were to have a pickup basketball game and the best players conspire to join up together instead of having a some sort of draft system. Obviously recruiting has always been that way, but it takes one or two football teams with such a high concentration of talent that it ruins the sport for the majority of fan bases.
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Eric » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:23 pm

At least with the BCS, you could lock out Alabama on a technicality. :lol:

If you put any Alabama team since 2008 into a 4-team playoff, they could have won it.
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Spence » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:43 pm

I'm not sure anyone is recruiting in Alabama's league. Ohio State and Clemson are close. Georgia is doing well now, we will have to see if Saban closes down those recruiting avenues he is using from his Bama days. Ohio State's house could crumble if Meyer decides to lay it down at the end of this season. I'm not sure the school is ready with a backup plan and if they aren't that could cost them a couple classes. Clemson is recruiting very impressively. Both Sweeny and Smart have learned that very will from their former boss.


I guess looking at the playoff rankings, If you replaced Notre Dame with UCF and keep their scores and schedule the same would UCF be ranked 3? Honestly, the two best wins on ND's schedule are Michigan and Northwestern, I am of the opinion that the Big ten isn't very good this year. Look at the OOC schedule of the B1G teams. Not great. Oklahoma played a decent schedule and won, but their best win IMO was West Virginia who was playing with the middle of their defense hurt. Oklahoma has no defense to speak of, none. Ohio State has a good defensive line. Not great, they were before Bosa got hurt, but without him they are just very good. The back seven is not good. I can't explain Michigan as much as I can't explain Purdue, neither game tells us who Ohio State is - or maybe it does. Maybe they are a very talented group who are very unmotivated. I don't know. I know they have only looked good in one game this year.

I don't think any of those teams are in Clemson or Alabama's class. I'm hoping the committee takes Oklahoma, Notre Dame, or Georgia to go with Alabama and Clemson. Not being able to get beat by 50 in the playoff will help Ohio State's recruing. Getting in the playoff when they aren't ready is a fools dream in my opinion.
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Re: Week 13 Elucidations

Postby Spence » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:44 pm

Eric wrote:At least with the BCS, you could lock out Alabama on a technicality. :lol:

If you put any Alabama team since 2008 into a 4-team playoff, they could have won it.


Probably.
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