Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

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Mountainman
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Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Mountainman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:59 am

....... during USC versus Washington State game.

A targeting call by the replay booth was overruled when the General Council for the PAC-12 called the replay booth after a review that overruled a ‘No Call’ by the officials on the field.

Good Grief....... is this where College Football is heading????

Details of the incident are out there if one is interested....... :evil:
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Spence » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:38 am

Until the NCAA trains and employs officials from a central office there will be no consistency. Things like this shouldn't happen. The big problem is that the conference lawyers are trying to be proactive to fend off lawsuits. Lawsuits that will be coming. That is why they go overboard on targeting in most instances. IMO there is no way to eliminate concussions in football unless you eliminate contact. That leaves no game. You can teach form tackling and keep players from spearing, other than that there is not much that can be done without eliminating the game all together.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Cane from the Bend » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:16 pm

/

There was a play last night in the Georgia Southern / Texas State game where targeting was call. The replay booth confirmed it, and the commentators agreed that it was the correct call after the booth decision.

But it was not targeting.

The Georgia Southern player hit the quarterback after he threw the ball and knocked him to the ground.

There was no contact to the head or neck area, and the defensive player did not lunch himself [leave his feet] to make the hit.

They claimed it was forcible contact. And it was okay to call it targeting, because the quarterback's head bounce off the ground when he landed.

It should have been a penalty. But not for Targeting. It should have been a 15 yard personal foul roughing the passer.

But to say that he was ejected from the game do to forcible contact --- show me one tackle where the ball carrier hits the ground that Isn't Forcible Contact.

The only good news for the player who got ejected, is that it happened with under a minute in the first half. So he was only out for the remainder of the game, and not out of play for next week --- well, that, and his team won last night.

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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Spence » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:33 pm

It doesn't have to be helmet to helmet now. If the player was deemed defenseless it is targeting. That is why corner Isaiah Pryor missed the first half in the Indiana game for Ohio State. He hit a Penn State receiver as he was going down and they said the player was defenseless so it was a good call. They are making defense defenseless.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby donovan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:59 pm

I suspect there is an infraction on every play in college football. Some examples. The offensive line lines up and it looks like a V formation how geese fly, holding on the line is a way of life, players wear plastic shields so when other players poke, jab and spit it doesn't go into their eyes, pass interference is so all over the place who knows what is the rule. Football arbitrarily spots the ball and then using lase calipers to measure what happened. Took years, yes years, for college football to outlaw horse collaring, now you don't see it so much. Targeting, spearing, needs to be defined. The using of the helmet as a primary form of maneuver. Key is primary.

With that said. The PAC 12, 10, 8 denies that happened. That is why they immediately changed the procedure who could be in the booth because it didn't happen.

Get rid of all protective gear and it all goes away; that's the solution.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Spence » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:40 pm

There is holding on every play absolutely. There is pass interference too - both offensive and defensive. I absolutely agree that the helmet shouldn't be a defensive weapon. It shouldn't be an offensive weapon either, but it appears that the helmet can be used if it is an offensive skill player. The issue with officiating to me is the lack of consistency. I can tell in the B10 when Ohio State is going to struggle more in a game by seeing what crew is working. I don't think it is because they are biased against Ohio State. It is just how they call the game. What they allow - what they don't. In the bowls it probably takes teams a quarter to figure out the officials style of call a game. I see the problem being the conferences dictating to their referees what they deem important and what they don't. It is very different conference to conference. More so than crew to crew in conference. I think when there are consistent examples in college and in the pros about the correct way to play as in tackle, block, running, and covering routes, then you will see that same thing happen in high school and Pop Warner leagues. But it has to be region to region, conference to conference, and level to level.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby donovan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:11 pm

You nailed it many years ago, Spence. We pay coaches millions and cannot afford professional refs for 4 months.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Mountainman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:24 pm

donovan wrote:You nailed it many years ago, Spence. We pay coaches millions and cannot afford professional refs for 4 months.



You nailed it too, donovan......... Eunuchs in decision-making and direction-deciding roles. :oops:

My two cents worth....... everyone is right, it’s going to be about rules, rule enforcement and technology.

I read an article some time ago about the development of a new helmet that absorbed almost all of the energy that could be delivered by a blow to the head by a football player......... the issue was the cost of the helmet was around $1500 each. I called our local high school athletic director to discuss, when I mentioned the price he said, ‘.....well, there goes High School Football’.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Spence » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:08 pm

I have to go to a coaches clinic every year and what they tell me about concussions is that no helmet will stop a concussion because it isn't the force of the blow, but rather the brain hitting the inside of the skull suddenly. That being the case, Donovan's idea to go back to leather helmets may at least get kids thinking about their safety and health more. Of course my daughter has had one confirmed concussion and one suspected concussion in soccer over the last 3 years. Both happened in her first year of high school before I told her that if she has another she is done. Since then she has tried very hard not to be in a position to get a concussion and it hasn't affected her ability to play well. So maybe the key is to make them try to learn how they can best protect themselves. Soccer isn't Football - as we know it- but teaching them ways to play their position in a way that protects them as a priority may be the way to go.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Cane from the Bend » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:40 pm

/

Pac-12 changes its procedures on replay, starting tonight:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/280 ... e-football

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ... and then it becomes regulation ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for one worthy soul:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy

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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Mountainman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:16 pm

Spence wrote:I have to go to a coaches clinic every year and what they tell me about concussions is that no helmet will stop a concussion because it isn't the force of the blow, but rather the brain hitting the inside of the skull suddenly. That being the case, Donovan's idea to go back to leather helmets may at least get kids thinking about their safety and health more. Of course my daughter has had one confirmed concussion and one suspected concussion in soccer over the last 3 years. Both happened in her first year of high school before I told her that if she has another she is done. Since then she has tried very hard not to be in a position to get a concussion and it hasn't affected her ability to play well. So maybe the key is to make them try to learn how they can best protect themselves. Soccer isn't Football - as we know it- but teaching them ways to play their position in a way that protects them as a priority may be the way to go.



Understood, similar to what an egg carton does...... it’s a great egg shell protector, but does little to protect the yolk from sloshing around and banging against the inside of the egg shell.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Mountainman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:21 pm

Cane from the Bend wrote:/

Pac-12 changes its procedures on replay, starting tonight:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/280 ... e-football

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Really good to see the PAC-12 immediately addressed this.
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Spence » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:45 pm

Mountainman wrote:
Spence wrote:I have to go to a coaches clinic every year and what they tell me about concussions is that no helmet will stop a concussion because it isn't the force of the blow, but rather the brain hitting the inside of the skull suddenly. That being the case, Donovan's idea to go back to leather helmets may at least get kids thinking about their safety and health more. Of course my daughter has had one confirmed concussion and one suspected concussion in soccer over the last 3 years. Both happened in her first year of high school before I told her that if she has another she is done. Since then she has tried very hard not to be in a position to get a concussion and it hasn't affected her ability to play well. So maybe the key is to make them try to learn how they can best protect themselves. Soccer isn't Football - as we know it- but teaching them ways to play their position in a way that protects them as a priority may be the way to go.



Understood, similar to what an egg carton does...... it’s a great egg shell protector, but does little to protect the yolk from sloshing around and banging against the inside of the egg shell.


That is exactly right. Also they believe that rotational impact is worse than linear impact. In football, most of the concussion happen to the corners and wide receivers. 22 and 15 percent respectively. So 37% of all concussions are from those positions. They have also found that helmet to body collisions(helmet to shoulder especially) are more dangerous than helmet to helmet collisions. Because the passing game involves diving around in close contact with another person and trying to catch the ball prevents your hands from sheilding your fall, it is likely the head gets knocked around more than if you have both feet on the ground.

I guess we could eliminate the forward pass and reduce concussions almost 40%. Woody Hayes would smile.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Mountainman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Spence wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
Spence wrote:I have to go to a coaches clinic every year and what they tell me about concussions is that no helmet will stop a concussion because it isn't the force of the blow, but rather the brain hitting the inside of the skull suddenly. That being the case, Donovan's idea to go back to leather helmets may at least get kids thinking about their safety and health more. Of course my daughter has had one confirmed concussion and one suspected concussion in soccer over the last 3 years. Both happened in her first year of high school before I told her that if she has another she is done. Since then she has tried very hard not to be in a position to get a concussion and it hasn't affected her ability to play well. So maybe the key is to make them try to learn how they can best protect themselves. Soccer isn't Football - as we know it- but teaching them ways to play their position in a way that protects them as a priority may be the way to go.



Understood, similar to what an egg carton does...... it’s a great egg shell protector, but does little to protect the yolk from sloshing around and banging against the inside of the egg shell.


That is exactly right. Also they believe that rotational impact is worse than linear impact. In football, most of the concussion happen to the corners and wide receivers. 22 and 15 percent respectively. So 37% of all concussions are from those positions. They have also found that helmet to body collisions(helmet to shoulder especially) are more dangerous than helmet to helmet collisions. Because the passing game involves diving around in close contact with another person and trying to catch the ball prevents your hands from sheilding your fall, it is likely the head gets knocked around more than if you have both feet on the ground.

I guess we could eliminate the forward pass and reduce concussions almost 40%. Woody Hayes would smile.



Today’s fans do like points....... let’s try eliminating the 3 pointer in basketball and see how that goes. :lol:
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Re: Lawyer Overrules Replay Booth.......

Postby Spence » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:10 pm

I have my daughter work on building her neck muscles. I think that it can help limit risk for concussion. I don't know that, but it makes sense to me.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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