Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

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Cane from the Bend
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Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby Cane from the Bend » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:05 pm

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I'm not so sure that this is the right move. Rodriguez seemed to be what the status quo for the Pac mid level programs needed to maintain their buoyancy, keeping their head just above water most years, while peaking every few years to challenge for the conference division.

Sumlin may force Arizona into a back step.

I'm not saying long term he will be bad. But the team, I do not believe, is designed for his coaching style. I'd hate to see athletic potential fade into obscurity because the next guys schemes don't allow the player to shine in quite the same way.

Sumlin was decent in A&M, but nothing world beating. Arizona is not exactly known for being world beaters, so maybe this is a marriage made for the middle ground.

Though, with expectations lower at Arizona than @ A&M, we will likely see how Sumlin works out after given enough time. Arizona is less probable to release a coach for having an average record. Which means, he'll be afforded the leeway to stumble a bit, and not have the exasperated pressure that came with coaching in the SEC West.

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Cane... [__]

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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby billybud » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:17 am

He has to be able to recruit California and Texas against a lot of competition.
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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby Spence » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:28 am

He out kicked his coverage with the pay check. They aren't expecting "status quo". I don't see any way he can make it there with the expectations they are going to have for the program.
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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby donovan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:25 pm

Apparently, the evidence against Rodriguez was substantial...he appears to be a slimeball. So they fired him. This is the rub, as I see it. You fire a winning coach or one that is building your program, as well they should when they do stupid things outside of football. That list is longer than the distance between me and Mr. Billybud.

Then they hire a gunslinger to come in and ramp up the football program. These "takeover" coaches have a tough time just straightening out the mess that was left. Apparently, assistants in Arizona's case were helping to secret his clandestine adulterous behavior. Sure Ohio State gets Meyer after Tressel did something with some jersey...and he left a strong well-oiled business football machine. Remember Willingham at U of Washington. After he cleaned up James, Lambright, Neuheisel, Gilbertson couldn't control the Tyee Club, Willingham cleaned up the program...but alas no wins and he goes down the road.

Sumlin won't recruit any better than the past. Ever spent a summer in Arizona? If you are from the North or California, not happening. You will get some 2nd tier players, but a tough job to a floundering program. And if you think parents are excited to send their kid to a school where the Administration allowed, the buck has to stop somewhere, all the chicanery that has been reported.

Sumlin will do all right and the school will a middle of the pack team. PAC 12 is getting better, of course not even close to the sec.
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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby Spence » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:24 pm

I agree Sumlin will be ok. But it ok enough when the school pony's up 10 million? If it is then it will work out. I'm not sure they will be fine with OK. Richrod is who you described. That much has been known since he was at WVU. At least in my neck of the woods. I've never been to Arizona in the summer, but it is hot as hell in march. I can't imagine what August would bring.
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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby Cane from the Bend » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:54 am

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Sumlin is guaranteed $4 million on a two year contract, that increases to a potential $3.5 million a year over the following three years, as long as they keep him, for a total of $14.5 million over 5 seasons.

There is some contingency plan which would allow Arizona to part ways with Sumlin without penalty as long as the termination is not without cause.

From the mouth of Dave Heeke, Arizona Athletics Director, himself: " There are provisions in place if the contract is terminated without cause, that include a mitigation requirement. That was very apparent to me early on that we needed to do that, we wanted to make sure that was included. Assistant coaches, yes, we’ve talked about that, and we’ve committed additional dollars to our salary pool. We want to be able to attract and retain coaches. I don’t think it’s been a problem in the past at all, contrary to popular conversation or belief. But I think it’s important. We want to get coaches that Kevin thinks will help lead our program forward and we’re ready to invest in that.”

Anyhow; irregardless, Sumlin is still going to be collecting on his $10 million buyout from Texas A&M. Not bad for a guy who just got fired.

This really feels like a PR move. I know Sumlin is a decent guy, and at least a safe middle ground coach. [you may not win the title, but you won't lose a step in keeping the pace you're on]

It's just, how does a Liberal University take the heat off of themselves when an influential figure has tarnished your reputation with women's rights during a pro feminist cycle in our society? The left does the most reflexive thing. Hire the minority coach with a positive image, who recently became unemployed.

Sumlin is a standup guy, so I really don't have a problem with the profile hire. He'll run a tight enough ship. That is, until he gets a star quality Prima Donna quarterback that he'll ride the success of, while letting the kid go unchecked. :roll:

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ... and then it becomes regulation ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for one worthy soul:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy

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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby donovan » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:38 am

Cane from the Bend wrote:.

It's just, how does a Liberal University take the heat off of themselves when an influential figure has tarnished your reputation with women's rights during a pro-feminist cycle in our society? The left does the most reflexive thing. Hire the minority coach with a positive image, who recently became unemployed.

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https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2018/01/03/read-the-allegations-against-fired-arizona.html

I understand the tone but I would suggest in this case if the allegations are true he may have committed a crime will using state employees to carry out personal actions. And, if the above is accurate or even partially accurate, he gets fired not because of any current "come to Jesus moments of movie stars that were willing to sacrifice their personal moral values, make millions and now want to look like paragons of virtue" but because there was enough smoke for the administration to know, soon to be a bonfire. It was not like he was good at keeping secrets.

Plus, his recruiting days are over.
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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby Cane from the Bend » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:24 am

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I wasn't referring to whether Rodriguez should have been fired or not. That was an obvious necessity. I was more leaning my comments toward their choice for a replacement.

There was a chain of strangeness here.

If we are to believe what Billybud has mentioned with regards to Jimbo taking a vacation on recruiting, as well as instructing his assistants to do the same [and I do not see why we should doubt him]; the Jimbo knew back in October that he was leaving for College Station. Which means Sumlin was already out of a job, and I suspect he already knew it too. Because recent information has come to light about Arizona State looking into offering their head coaching position to Sumlin as far back as late October. But then ASU hired Herm Edwards as an off field CEO management head coach, who is to delegate his staff on how to coach. WHo just happens to be Arizona State's first African American Head Football Coach. Then, Tuesday, the University of Arizona announces Kevin Sumlin, as their new head football coach, whom also happens to be Arizona's first ever African American head football coach. And that announcement came the day after Rev Dr. Martin Luther King Jr day.

Again; Sumlin may be the right guy for the job. He keep a tight ship, and run the program with dignity. He may not win a championship, but he'll garner several wins. Especially with the QB he currently has. Khalil Tate is a coach's dream player.

However, the timing & circumstances surrounding this hire seem all to convenient for Arizona. I don't believe they even entertained the thought of anyone else for the job. That okay, if you otherwise knew he was your guy ... but it feels a lot like the Arizona Administration is busy patting each other on the back behind the curtain.

The way all of this was handled, it makes me wonder what the University was more concerned over. Was it that Rodriguez is a bad influence, was his hand painted red in the transparent cookie jar? Or, did Arizona not care so much, except where other prying eyes who might come sniffing about, and cut the anchor loose before a journalist breaks the story?

Because, when I see a guy like Hugh Freeze getting hired at Alabama to be their Offensive Coordinator/Analyst, I start to question the integrity of institutional awareness across the map.

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Cane... [__]

"It is only impossible until it has been accomplished." ... then it becomes standardized ... and then it becomes regulation ...

Success is measured by results; whereas Character is measured through the means by which one achieves those results . . .

It seems the Rapture did come for one worthy soul:
In Memory of Grandpa Howdy

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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby donovan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:11 am

I think you are spot on. My being confused is just part of my normal day. I think there are sufficient examples where taking political bulletproof action is sold as insolation from more criticism of the administration.
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Re: Sumlin @ the Helm in Tuscon

Postby Spence » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:04 am

The university is more afraid of bad publicity than anything. They world has become so politically correct that no one can hold up to the scrutiny of publicity. There is also a fear of publicity when you are doing something wrong. Most university sports programs can't stand up to either.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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