SEC! SEC! SEC!!

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billybud
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby billybud » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:37 pm

Playing in the NCAA tournament is not a right...you should be better than other teams to get there...the Cinderellas (teams that are not now in a P5 or the Big East in basketball) haven't won the championship in over 30 years.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby donovan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:18 pm

billybud wrote:You can play football if you don't demand a home and home....If you aren't scheduling a P5...it's because you don't want to...and would rather whine.


There are people that actually believe that.

Scheduling has to do with so many things. Certainly, ratings are one, but not that big. Note Alabama, they for OOC only schedule teams that are a driver and five iron away.
No team with a 90,000 seat stadium is going to schedule a team with 30,000. Exceptions are rare.

The elite programs used the rest of us for fodder and deceive the masses. I am working on the conspiracy...more later.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Eric » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:28 pm

There are a lot of different angles that factor into scheduling. UCF had no designs on being nationally competitive when they fielded this schedule whenever they scheduled it. It's easy to say that "nobody wanted to play UCF!" but these things are done well in advance. I don't know why the best UCF could have gotten is Maryland and Georgia Tech, that's just the way it worked out. The best Boise State can usually get is Washington right now. Alabama or Oklahoma or even Oregon would be dumb to schedule Boise State because there's no upside. Just schedule Weber State and take the W. It's a matter of perception where beating a good Boise State team doesn't do much for you but losing to a good Boise State team would hurt. Same principle applies for North Dakota State or James Madison, just schedule a terrible FCS team instead of a good one.

The American Athletic teams are in a bit of a no-man's-land because they're perceived as being a mid-major conference but they are a step above other mid-major conferences. The top-tier teams are usually looking for one marquee game against a top flight school and then tuneups to prepare for the conference season.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Eric » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:32 pm

Of course in the most down year of the SEC in the last ten years, the top two teams happened to meet each other in the finals thus giving their "dominance" argument more credence than it otherwise would have gotten :lol:

This conference's footprint is sinking in my opinion. Kudos on having two of the best 4 teams in the nation, but Florida, LSU, and Tennessee aren't coming back any time soon. Ole Miss is going down the gutter, Missouri does nothing either. I will say that we'll have to watch out for A&M, so that's about that. A&M, Bama, Georgia, and then everybody else.

While everybody is yammering on about the SEC's playoff performances in recent history, they should realize that it's one school happening to do all of the work. It'd be like the Pac-12 taking credit for being amazing since their flagship was dominant over a period of time.

This could all change once the appropriate firings are made, but I feel like a lot of these programs are misfiring and it will take some time to adjust. The SEC has not attracted prime coaching talent recently, and I can't blame them, since they have to go through Saban. Jimbo notwithstanding. The Big 10 is attracting an incredible amount of coaching talent, and this will probably dwindle soon. What coach in his right mind would want to take the Illinois or Rutgers or Indiana jobs right now when you look at your competition. And, likewise, the minute Fleck or Brohm or Franklin or Chryst start to experience next-level success, I could see them looking for an easier job. The mediocrity of the B1G is what attracted Harbaugh, Meyer, and Franklin, and now that that'll be gone for a stretch, the new blood in the conference won't be very good. This is probably 3 or 4 years down the road. I think the B1G is on the verge of something special soon. And before I get accused of being a homer, nobody has been more down on the B1G over the last 10 years than Spence and I, and I don't expect Michigan to be participating in this renaissance either.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Spence » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:36 pm

My point is and always will be that you shouldn’t have two teams from the same conference in a playoff that has four teams. I don’t care who the teams are or the how strong the conference. If schedule really mattered - then tell me how a team gets away with playing 1AA teams. There is no way anyone can state unequivocally that two of the top four teams come from one conference. If the committee wants to jump over the conference champ and take another team or leave a team out for any reason, ok, but pick teams that didn’t get beat out by another team in their conference.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby donovan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:48 pm

Spence wrote:My point is and always will be that you shouldn’t have two teams from the same conference in a playoff that has four teams. I don’t care who the teams are or the how strong the conference. If schedule really mattered - then tell me how a team gets away with playing 1AA teams. There is no way anyone can state unequivocally that two of the top four teams come from one conference. If the committee wants to jump over the conference champ and take another team or leave a team out for any reason, ok, but pick teams that didn’t get beat out by another team in their conference.


I absolutely agree. But you have people that think beating a team does not make the winner a better team. It certainly does for that game and that game was their contribution to the season. This body of work stretching over past years and prediction for the future is only used for control, pick the motive, money, power, I'm in charge...irrelevant.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Derek » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:02 pm

Gentlemen...Gentlemen...let an SEC native chime in here.

I am also not happy about Alabama being in the show, and I don't think most SEC fans (with the exception of Bama of course) would agree that they should be there, especially Georgia fans. I will continually point to the 2007 season where Ga should have rightfully went after #2 and #3 lost on the same weekend.

We were told quite loudly that you should have to win your conference, or division to go to the BCS championship game, and Ga did neither (JUST like Alabama, there is NO difference).

Saying it's OK now....IS a huge double standard. And it subliminally says that it's really about the crowds that a given team will draw, and not as much to do with the best 4 teams.

It would be a better "system" if there was some consistency in their opinion and action. But it is not there, because money (as donovan has said) is a bigger factor than crowning the absolute best team.

And I would argue that if you didn't win your conference, then you are not the best team in that conference.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Derek » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:10 pm

donovan wrote:
Spence wrote:My point is and always will be that you shouldn’t have two teams from the same conference in a playoff that has four teams. I don’t care who the teams are or the how strong the conference. If schedule really mattered - then tell me how a team gets away with playing 1AA teams. There is no way anyone can state unequivocally that two of the top four teams come from one conference. If the committee wants to jump over the conference champ and take another team or leave a team out for any reason, ok, but pick teams that didn’t get beat out by another team in their conference.


I absolutely agree. But you have people that think beating a team does not make the winner a better team. It certainly does for that game and that game was their contribution to the season. This body of work stretching over past years and prediction for the future is only used for control, pick the motive, money, power, I'm in charge...irrelevant.




Donovan, I just noticed your signature. Not sure how long you've had it up....but I like it.

"Most of what I have learned in life about morality and immorality I have learned from sports. (My parents insisted I play sports and games, only later in life did I understand why)"

This also goes along with this HUGGEE problem I have with teams not keeping score. We are preparing snowflakes for survival in the desert when we tell them that nobody loses.
They’re either going to run the ball here or their going to pass it.

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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby billybud » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:52 pm

I wish all Marine recruits had to see "Patton" rather than the standard spiel of battle as a a team sport and do or die for the team.

Patton: "Now I want you to remember that no jerk ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb jerk die for his country."
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby donovan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:59 pm

I can assure you, war is not a sport.

And updated my avatar for the week. Pulling for Georgia against whoever that is they are playing.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Spence » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:31 pm

Derek wrote:Gentlemen...Gentlemen...let an SEC native chime in here.

I am also not happy about Alabama being in the show, and I don't think most SEC fans (with the exception of Bama of course) would agree that they should be there, especially Georgia fans. I will continually point to the 2007 season where Ga should have rightfully went after #2 and #3 lost on the same weekend.

We were told quite loudly that you should have to win your conference, or division to go to the BCS championship game, and Ga did neither (JUST like Alabama, there is NO difference).

Saying it's OK now....IS a huge double standard. And it subliminally says that it's really about the crowds that a given team will draw, and not as much to do with the best 4 teams.

It would be a better "system" if there was some consistency in their opinion and action. But it is not there, because money (as donovan has said) is a bigger factor than crowning the absolute best team.

And I would argue that if you didn't win your conference, then you are not the best team in that conference.


I don’t have a problem with Georgia being in. They earned their way in IMO. I don’t have a huge issue with Alabama- the team- being in. My issue is there is already someone in their conference that is in. If it were a 16 team playoff, then I would expect it. It is a four team playoff though, and we know that Georgia was crowned the best team of their conference. I did t care much for Ohio State jumping the nits last year. But I would have had a bigger problem if they had taken Ohio State and Penn State. The only reason their is a “committee” is to protect the money. That is why Ohio State made it last year and why Alabama made it this year.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Cane from the Bend » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:06 am

.

Personally, I am not so sure I haven't already watched the National Championship game ... it was called the Rose Bowl.

If Bama wins, they may prove me wrong. If Georgia wins big; then neither the Sugar Bowl, nor this next game mean much.

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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby billybud » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:37 am

What is this artificial construct the the two beat teams in the country can't be from the same conference?

Next..we'd say that they can't be from the same area of the country...

Or...they must include a G5 school...

Or...and they must include a Catholic institution located in Northern Indiana.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby Spence » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:05 am

billybud wrote:What is this artificial construct the the two beat teams in the country can't be from the same conference?

Next..we'd say that they can't be from the same area of the country...

Or...they must include a G5 school...

Or...and they must include a Catholic institution located in Northern Indiana.


They can be from the same conference, but with only four spots open in a playoff and no real way to tell, it is pretty arrogant of the committee to make that assumption when there is an argument. If the teams that made it in were not subjective, then there is no question, but it is subjective. Alabama is definitely in the argument, but that is what it is, it is a subjective argument. The need to either go to 4- 20 team conferences and let the conference champions go or go to a tournament of champions and let the champions from every conference play off. The only reason there is a committee is to make sure the playoff has TV appeal and keeps the money flowing. I don't think the committee is bias for teams based on fandom. Just to control the money. That is why Ohio State made it last year and why Alabama made it this year.
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Re: SEC! SEC! SEC!!

Postby billybud » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:07 am

No Spence...War Is Not a Sport.

But the similarities are definitely there.....In war, you have a very real team concept at the sharp point of the stick...brothers, camaraderie, sacrifice for the "team"...game plans are drawn up and adjusted as action on the field dictates.

War is a contest, as is football, the teams wear uniforms in both instances, one team may assume a offfensive position while another defends....our lingo reflects those aspects...when we speak of football linemen "in the trenches". we aren't talking about being dug in along the Marne...but that is the clear reference.

Baseball, in contrast to football, seems much less war like. And I suspect that it is because it is a less violent sport

Down here...the Creeks and Muscogees definitely knew that their quite violent game of ball was a war substitute...and often used to manage inter village conflict.

I am old enough to remember the incessant weekly "body counts" that had to be forwarded up to Westmoreland....so that the "score" of the other side was in the context of our "score".

No...one can piously opine that war is not a sport...but we can hardly ignore the similarities.

...
(PS...I'll leave it to Donovan to talk about the military-industrial complex conspiracy re wars and compare it to the entertainment industry sports conspiracy re college football)
Last edited by billybud on Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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