U.S. Army All-American Bowl

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Spence
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Postby Spence » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:55 pm

I was reading my earlier posts and I didn't mean to sound as I thought Ohio State was "above" sign a kid like Cumberland. I actually believe that he should have been offered and that the purpose of school is education. If he can get in and prove he can do the work he should get the chance. my point is that with the new rules the NCAA is forcing schools to give up on kids. They aren't giving them a chance to see if they can do the work and that is wrong. If the school takes a chance on a kid and he fails, then they punish the school. I can see making them prove they can do the work before they play. THat makes since to me, but to not give them a chance at all is wrong. I'm not talking about the "takers" like Mo. Clarett. There are plenty of kids, though, that given the chance to get out of their home environment (tough neighborhoods-peer pressure situations) would thrive in school given the chance to see what they can become. Football is just the incentive to do well. Given the current state of affairs the NCAA has made this almost impossible. The NCAA needs to revise the rules to make the kids prove they will do the work before they play, not shut the door on them completely.

Schools that have "high admissions" standards do it so their grad. rates are impressive. Schools dedicated to helping the borderline kids are the ones who should be commended for doing the real work of educating kids. It isn't hard to teach the smart kids. All that "high standards" stuff is a cop out in my opinion.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby Guest » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:22 pm

Instead of the farm league those kids could go play arena ball, and try to develop, but the NCAA can never be a back up plan for players, once you go pro, you can never play for them. If they changed that rule, it could really open things up. Players that don't make it in the pro's can come back. I don't really like the idea of doing that.

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Postby Spence » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:39 pm

sorry - i have to disagree with you on this . reason - what if these kids couldn't play sports - do you think any big school would allow them in ? doubtful . to me that's a problem . what's good for 1 student should be good for all . although i think we would agree the rules are bent for the gifted athletes . right or wrong .


People get scholarships at colleges all the time for a lot of reasons besides academics. Art and Music scholarships are an example. Those kids get the chance to come to school and if they do the work they stay. If they do not cut it they flunk out. The schools can make exceptions on SAT scores and or grades fro these kids all of the time, but no one punishes them for doing that.

I will give you an example. My mom's father died when she was 5 years old. He left my grandmother with 6 children (twin 6mth old babies) in 1940. My mom along with her brother and sisters worked from the time they were around 10 years old. My mother worked full time in highschool and tried to keep up with her schoolwork. She barely graduated because she spent all of her "free time" working to help support her family. She got an art scholarship to college. She didn't have the grades to get in, but her talent gave her an opportunity that she otherwise wouldn't have gotten. She did well in school because she was able to focus on her work. She wasn't dumb. She wasn't a troubled teen, she was just poor and trying to do the right thing concerning her family.

The example you gave was from a kid who got into school. I have said that once you get a chance it is up to the kid to take advantage. He didn't, but someone from ND gave him the chance. I see nothing wrong with that and ND shouldn't get punished because of it.

For some of these kids, sports is a way out. Whether it is to be a pro sports player or whether they trade sports for a medical or engineeering degree.

Again I'm not saying they should be coddled oncce they are in school. They need to do the work, but they should be able to have the chance to succeed. After that it is up to them.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Postby Spence » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:27 am

my case is say you and i struggle through high school. C- D+ student. SAT score around 800 combined. do you think you will be accepted by the school you really wish to attend.


No, If you have an 800 combined along with a history of bad grades you couldn't get through the NCAA clearinghouse for minimum standards. My argument is that some of these kids can get through the clearinghouse, but aren't being offered because they are borderline students. The schools are afraid that it will hurt their grad rating, so they are not getting a chance. When they obviously can't do the work, then they need to go to prep school and prove themselves there.

I'm not arguing that Notre Dame doesn't have high admissions standards, but they have made exceptions in the past for marginal students that could help their football team. I'm not saying this is wrong, but it is true. Notre Dame is a private school, their admissions policy is up to their regents. Schools like Ohio State, being a state school, (land grant university) have an obligation to educate instate students who pass the minimum standards.

http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/paper660/news/2004/12/07/Viewpoint/Busting.The.Admissions.Standards.Myth-823220.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.ndsmcobserver.com

This link is an article that says that ND regularly admits students to play football that wouldn't normally be admitted. Again, I am not saying this is wrong. The student must still do the core work, but ND is no different then any other D-1A school when it comes to academic admissions.

Schools are changing these policies, though, and denying kids that would have been admitted before. Ohio State has gotten ridiculous in their admissions. Completely going against their mission statement.

They have raised the grade point of the football players, though, last year 56 Ohio State football players had a composite 3.00 or better. Probably for the first time in school history.

Again , i'm not saying that players shouldn't have to maintain their school work. I'm saying schools shouldn't be punished for letting a marginal student have a chance. Punish them for letting failing students play. That gives them incentive to get these kids the help they need to succeed.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain


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