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colorado_loves_football
I think we covered this topic in a previous link, TCU-Iowa St.
Notre Dame is coveted by the BCS, in fact, but for the "Notre Dame" rule, it's possible (likely even) Notre Dame would be taken by a BCS bowl, irrespective of their schedule.
Now, the question appears to be why is Notre Dame such a draw?
Well, my guess is there are a lot of Catholics who believe God watches over that institution. Plus you have all the tradition and generally outstanding individuals who have played there.
Did anyone hear the story about Rick Meirer? He was a blue chip recruit out of Michigan I believe. Bo Schembechler wanted him to play there, while he was still coaching, but when he visited Rick, the Monday Night football game was a Chicago Bear team playing (Jim Harbaugh QB).
Apparently, he was at that time the only Michigan QB playing in the NFL.
So, instead of playing for Bo Schembechler, Rick Meirer played for Lou Holtz.
It's not just that Notre Dame is good, they are a 'draw'. It's kind of like comparing Indianapolis to the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Colts will in all likelihood win, but who would you rather see play in the Super Bowl?
Notre Dame is coveted by the BCS, in fact, but for the "Notre Dame" rule, it's possible (likely even) Notre Dame would be taken by a BCS bowl, irrespective of their schedule.
Now, the question appears to be why is Notre Dame such a draw?
Well, my guess is there are a lot of Catholics who believe God watches over that institution. Plus you have all the tradition and generally outstanding individuals who have played there.
Did anyone hear the story about Rick Meirer? He was a blue chip recruit out of Michigan I believe. Bo Schembechler wanted him to play there, while he was still coaching, but when he visited Rick, the Monday Night football game was a Chicago Bear team playing (Jim Harbaugh QB).
Apparently, he was at that time the only Michigan QB playing in the NFL.
So, instead of playing for Bo Schembechler, Rick Meirer played for Lou Holtz.
It's not just that Notre Dame is good, they are a 'draw'. It's kind of like comparing Indianapolis to the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Colts will in all likelihood win, but who would you rather see play in the Super Bowl?
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colorado_loves_football
I think we covered this topic in a previous link, TCU-Iowa St.
The reasons for Notre Dame being such a draw are many, probably.
First of all they've been around forever, or at least that's how it seems.
Knute Rockne, for example.
Secondly, they are generally pretty good, recent years excepted, but they also went through a 'lull' in the 1980's under Gerry Faust, and even then they were mostly competitive.
So the question remains, what is it about Notre Dame that makes them such a draw? Well, I know as a kid I grew up watching Notre Dame football highlights, and I had hoped I might someday play for them.
As I got older I realized they are just one of many excellent football programs, but they get a lot of publicity.
Personally, I think the days of Notre Dame being 'special' are over.
They aren't any better than any other team, but they seem to have some appeal that goes beyond explanation.
As in the case when they played USC, they nearly won that game on emotion alone. And I guess that more than anything is what makes them unique, in the sporting world, the 'magic' or whatever you want to call it that follows them everywhere they go.
Yes, they were an automatic qualifier this year, but there are stipulations that make it easier for Notre Dame to be selected. They used to be a lot less restrictive, now they have to win 9 games or finish in the top-10.
Either one is an 'automatic' qualifier for the BCS, believe it or not.
The reasons for Notre Dame being such a draw are many, probably.
First of all they've been around forever, or at least that's how it seems.
Knute Rockne, for example.
Secondly, they are generally pretty good, recent years excepted, but they also went through a 'lull' in the 1980's under Gerry Faust, and even then they were mostly competitive.
So the question remains, what is it about Notre Dame that makes them such a draw? Well, I know as a kid I grew up watching Notre Dame football highlights, and I had hoped I might someday play for them.
As I got older I realized they are just one of many excellent football programs, but they get a lot of publicity.
Personally, I think the days of Notre Dame being 'special' are over.
They aren't any better than any other team, but they seem to have some appeal that goes beyond explanation.
As in the case when they played USC, they nearly won that game on emotion alone. And I guess that more than anything is what makes them unique, in the sporting world, the 'magic' or whatever you want to call it that follows them everywhere they go.
Yes, they were an automatic qualifier this year, but there are stipulations that make it easier for Notre Dame to be selected. They used to be a lot less restrictive, now they have to win 9 games or finish in the top-10.
Either one is an 'automatic' qualifier for the BCS, believe it or not.
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Spence
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The problem I have had with Notre Dame has always been them being independent. If they were in a conference I would have no rub with them at all. Having a big national following affords some teams advantages in being picked to play in certain bowl games. I have no problem with that, because the NCAA sells collegiate sports as entertainment.
Notre Dame used to be special. They used to be the only "national" college team. Now there are plenty of CFB teams with national followings. Notre Dame isn't any different then the others. No better or worse, except for the fact that the media still treats them that way. An example would be when they lost to USC. No other team in the nation could have lost that game and not moved down in the rankings. There is a lot wrong with that.
I believe that is why ND hasn't won a bowl game for a long time. Because the media raises them to a level where they don't belong and they are over matched in the bowl games. Given how most teams below them played in the bowl games they probably did deserve to play in the Fiesta.
Conference play is tougher because all the teams that play you know you inside and out. When Ohio State plays an OOC game, especially at the Horseshoe, there is a level of intimidation that the visiting team feels. When Indiana comes to the 'Shoe it isn't a big deal to them, they play there every other year and the play Ohio State almost every year. They have a better chance of winning.
It has nothing to do with ND being a Catholic University. That would be a silly argument.
Notre Dame used to be special. They used to be the only "national" college team. Now there are plenty of CFB teams with national followings. Notre Dame isn't any different then the others. No better or worse, except for the fact that the media still treats them that way. An example would be when they lost to USC. No other team in the nation could have lost that game and not moved down in the rankings. There is a lot wrong with that.
I believe that is why ND hasn't won a bowl game for a long time. Because the media raises them to a level where they don't belong and they are over matched in the bowl games. Given how most teams below them played in the bowl games they probably did deserve to play in the Fiesta.
Conference play is tougher because all the teams that play you know you inside and out. When Ohio State plays an OOC game, especially at the Horseshoe, there is a level of intimidation that the visiting team feels. When Indiana comes to the 'Shoe it isn't a big deal to them, they play there every other year and the play Ohio State almost every year. They have a better chance of winning.
It has nothing to do with ND being a Catholic University. That would be a silly argument.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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mountainman
Hey, irish88 ...... Whoa, there big fella'
I don't believe Notre Dame's affiliation with the Catholic Church is an issue here. There affiliation with the Catholic Church simply means the Irish have probably the largest fan base (there are somewhere around 80 million catholics in this country) in the nation ... that's all. There's a whole bunch of non-catholics that pull for the Irish too.
If fact, their fan base is the reason they have their own nation wide TV contract with NBC. You don't think for one minute that NBC would be broadcasting the Irish if no one was watching do you?
The issue or question, if you will, in some of our minds is that Notre Dame has an advantage over other D-1A schools because the Irish's football team is not affiliated or constrained by the rules or obligations that comes with conference affiliation.
One of those perceived advantages is that, as an independent, Notre Dame gets to sets its own schedule. Another is not having to win a conference title to automatically qualify for BCS inclusion.
There are others I'm sure, and I thought you might want to give Notre Dame's side of things since, speaking for myself, I've never heard them.
I mean, why doesn't Notre Dame's football team have conference affiliation? I believe all their other sports are affiliated with the Big East Conference.
I don't believe Notre Dame's affiliation with the Catholic Church is an issue here. There affiliation with the Catholic Church simply means the Irish have probably the largest fan base (there are somewhere around 80 million catholics in this country) in the nation ... that's all. There's a whole bunch of non-catholics that pull for the Irish too.
If fact, their fan base is the reason they have their own nation wide TV contract with NBC. You don't think for one minute that NBC would be broadcasting the Irish if no one was watching do you?
The issue or question, if you will, in some of our minds is that Notre Dame has an advantage over other D-1A schools because the Irish's football team is not affiliated or constrained by the rules or obligations that comes with conference affiliation.
One of those perceived advantages is that, as an independent, Notre Dame gets to sets its own schedule. Another is not having to win a conference title to automatically qualify for BCS inclusion.
There are others I'm sure, and I thought you might want to give Notre Dame's side of things since, speaking for myself, I've never heard them.
I mean, why doesn't Notre Dame's football team have conference affiliation? I believe all their other sports are affiliated with the Big East Conference.
I don't think ND's catholic affiliation is a silly argument. That affiliation means that most, if not all, media memers who are catholic are going to have some bias in their favor which relates to poll votes (Harris) and media decisions for broadcasting to politicking within bowl committees. You can't exclude this from the agrument.
Methodists (SMU) and Christians (TCU) simply aren't as large an organized religion when it comes to rallying support for anything. Christians are split across many religious doctrines (there is no Christian pope) and methodists are very moderate in their preachings so there is not the same passion in large numbers. Saying that, I don't want to get into a confrontation over the various religions - and I by no means want to imply that I think I'm any sort of theologian.
Methodists (SMU) and Christians (TCU) simply aren't as large an organized religion when it comes to rallying support for anything. Christians are split across many religious doctrines (there is no Christian pope) and methodists are very moderate in their preachings so there is not the same passion in large numbers. Saying that, I don't want to get into a confrontation over the various religions - and I by no means want to imply that I think I'm any sort of theologian.
"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."
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Spence
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I don't think ND's catholic affiliation is a silly argument. That affiliation means that most, if not all, media memers who are catholic are going to have some bias in their favor which relates to poll votes (Harris) and media decisions for broadcasting to politicking within bowl committees. You can't exclude this from the agrument.
I understand what you are saying, but there is probably no more bias then media guys from Columbus voting Ohio State to high. I'm sure it happens, but i don't think it happens enough to make an impact. At least not since the AP is not in the championship picture.
I'm not Catholic, but as I understand it there are different orders in the Catholic church. For example the order of priests that supports Boston College isn't the same as the one from ND. I don't believe all Catholics root for ND, just like I don't believe that everyone in Ohio supports Ohio State.
The bias toward ND has more to do with the legend of the football program. I don't think the religious argument is completely unfounded, but I don't think it is significant.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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Yeofoot
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Every sport has one. In Baseball, the New York Yankees. In college basketball it's Duke. Football, The Dallas Cowboys. Pro B-Ball, the Lakers. College Wrestling, Iowa. Lacrosse, Maryland. College football, it's Notre Dame. A lot of people that decide to start watching college football, decide to watch the only team they know about...Notre Dame. I bet even the members of N.O.W. know about Notre Dame.
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colorado_loves_football
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Spence
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Also, I think it is the tv contract. Kids see that they are on tv every saturday and want that exposure.
This is why Notre Dame isn't special anymore. A lot of teams play in front of the nation now. Recruiting around the nation made ND special. Everyone does it now.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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Spence
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True Spence, but ND is on national TV every week. I can't see Michigan or Ohio St. every week. And you guys can't see Bama every week. They are getting on more often, but ND is on a basic national channel every week.
Yes but more often then not Ohio State is carried to 60% of the country. Ratings points for those games are in the range of what ND gets, so as many people are seeing the games. I sure that is the case with Alabama as well.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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mountainman
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Spence
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"You may want ND in a conference, but it's certainly not in the best interest of the Irish and --IMHO-- not in the best interest of college football. America loves (or loves to hate) the Irish because their a dynasty - albeit a slightly diminished one in recent years, but ND football is an American institution. Let's not water it down with eight conference games just because it's convenient.
I know it isn't in the best interest of the Irish. That is why in is an unfair advantage. In the best interest of college football? Sorry man ND just isn't that important. Like I said before, no better or worse then anyone else.
We'll take a poll on it .
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
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