Anybody See Where.....

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Spence
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Spence » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:50 pm

Whether or not anyone cares about the athlete's help, their bodies will not hold up. They just won't and when it starts affecting their future negatively, they will do something else. You are already seeing that to a degree in football. Most of these guys are athletes who can put their efforts in another sport if they start early enough.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:11 pm

Spence wrote:I don't think even Archimedes would be able to solve this with the information available. The scheduling problem is something that can't be made fair without making it a logistical nightmare, and then there is the problem of the big schools trying to feed the beast to keep up with the Jones'. That is why the conference champ thing works. It may not be completely fair based on the teams you have to beat being better than teams that another conference has to beat, but it does provide a clear path for every team. Some of the paths have more potholes than the others, but that is life. This current system is more than fair to Ohio State. If they beat Purdue or even lost by 7, they would probably be playing in the tournament. Ohio State is in the category of the "haves". Which means they usually get the benefit of the doubt. A lot of other teams, even teams from power 5 conferences aren't on a level playing field as far as this committee is concerned. If Purdue played in the east with the same players and scores as Ohio State only no losses the committee would put Georgia and Oklahoma in the playoff in front of them. That is what I believe is wrong with the committee. Any even selecting at larges is beyond their ability.



‘The College Football Playoff does not define us.’ ~ Jim Delaney, Commissioner oF the Big Ten
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:34 pm

donovan wrote:I agree. The basic problem with a National Football Championship and why it is an exercise in futility to even try is based on physicality. You can not play more than one football game a week. And then the overall season becomes so long there is no time long-term healing, which is necessary. Other sports, baseball, basketball, golf, etc can be played daily and with few exceptions, there is not a lot of physical harm, just get enough rest.

If you were to have a true National Championship the season would go on for another two months. Though I am not sure anyone cares, these kids are still students and cannot miss class all year round. During the season they take fairly light loads, and that is the ones that care about education which is not all of them.

So, in my opinion, it will always be flawed and with that in mind, why do it at all.

The other part is fans get tired when it goes on too long. Winter, go inside and watch basketball, Spring, go to the park and watch baseball.



So, a word of caution and wisdom...... Beware of the Beast, as the Beast will bite the hand that feeds him.
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Spence » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:55 pm

Mountainman wrote:
Spence wrote:I don't think even Archimedes would be able to solve this with the information available. The scheduling problem is something that can't be made fair without making it a logistical nightmare, and then there is the problem of the big schools trying to feed the beast to keep up with the Jones'. That is why the conference champ thing works. It may not be completely fair based on the teams you have to beat being better than teams that another conference has to beat, but it does provide a clear path for every team. Some of the paths have more potholes than the others, but that is life. This current system is more than fair to Ohio State. If they beat Purdue or even lost by 7, they would probably be playing in the tournament. Ohio State is in the category of the "haves". Which means they usually get the benefit of the doubt. A lot of other teams, even teams from power 5 conferences aren't on a level playing field as far as this committee is concerned. If Purdue played in the east with the same players and scores as Ohio State only no losses the committee would put Georgia and Oklahoma in the playoff in front of them. That is what I believe is wrong with the committee. Any even selecting at larges is beyond their ability.



‘The College Football Playoff does not define us.’ ~ Jim Delaney, Commissioner oF the Big Ten


Actually, according to many Ohio State fans I know, It Does. :lol: Just an aside, Jim Delaney is an overpaid tool.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:55 pm

Spence wrote:
Mountainman wrote:
Spence wrote:I don't think even Archimedes would be able to solve this with the information available. The scheduling problem is something that can't be made fair without making it a logistical nightmare, and then there is the problem of the big schools trying to feed the beast to keep up with the Jones'. That is why the conference champ thing works. It may not be completely fair based on the teams you have to beat being better than teams that another conference has to beat, but it does provide a clear path for every team. Some of the paths have more potholes than the others, but that is life. This current system is more than fair to Ohio State. If they beat Purdue or even lost by 7, they would probably be playing in the tournament. Ohio State is in the category of the "haves". Which means they usually get the benefit of the doubt. A lot of other teams, even teams from power 5 conferences aren't on a level playing field as far as this committee is concerned. If Purdue played in the east with the same players and scores as Ohio State only no losses the committee would put Georgia and Oklahoma in the playoff in front of them. That is what I believe is wrong with the committee. Any even selecting at larges is beyond their ability.



‘The College Football Playoff does not define us.’ ~ Jim Delaney, Commissioner oF the Big Ten


Actually, according to many Ohio State fans I know, It Does. :lol: Just an aside, Jim Delaney is an overpaid tool.



Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha...... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby donovan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:23 am

This article is another example of how utterly insane college football has become. I assume the arrogant Greg Sankey will ensure UCF can play Alabama next year.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25471482/sec-commissioner-greg-sankey-says-ucf-knights-fix-strength-schedule-issue
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:38 am

donovan wrote:This article is another example of how utterly insane college football has become. I assume the arrogant Greg Sankey will ensure UCF can play Alabama next year.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25471482/sec-commissioner-greg-sankey-says-ucf-knights-fix-strength-schedule-issue



Yep, there’re ‘complexities’ to it. Maybe next time Sankey will tell everyone what those complexities are instead of drawing parallels and making analogies to College Basketball.

........btw, Alabama’s Strength of Schedule this season included Louisville,Arkansas State, Mississippi, Louisiana Lafayette, Arkansas, Tennessee, and The Citadel.
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Spence » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:13 pm

Alabama's schedule was Abysmal this year. Doesn't mean they aren't a great team, but I think that has been Danny White's point for the last couple of years.
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Spence wrote:Alabama's schedule was Abysmal this year. Doesn't mean they aren't a great team, but I think that has been Danny White's point for the last couple of years.



Danny White’s fix is wrong too, just as Sankey’s recommendations and explanations are. An expanded playoff won’t fix it anymore that a tougher schedule for UCF will.

The problem is the CFP Committee’s selection process...... the current Committee Chairman verified what was suspected while standing in front of the ESPN cameras at the end of the season before the final selections when said in response to a question about ‘Who’s In’ when he said, ‘I don’t know, oh we’ll run the teams through our metrics, but in the end it will come down to the personal preferences of each Committee Member.”


I’m still working on it........ :lol:
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Spence » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:35 pm

Yes, and that is the problem. If they are going to have a tournament make it a tournament of conference champs. Will that give you all the best teams? No. My point is that when it is virtually impossible to identify the 4 or 8 or 10 best teams, then what does it matter? They probably don't have the four best now. They probably have 2. ?Maybe even 3. But not four.
"History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain

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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:46 pm

Spence wrote:Yes, and that is the problem. If they are going to have a tournament make it a tournament of conference champs. Will that give you all the best teams? No. My point is that when it is virtually impossible to identify the 4 or 8 or 10 best teams, then what does it matter? They probably don't have the four best now. They probably have 2. ?Maybe even 3. But not four.



Haven’t got anything I’ve completely thought through, but I’ve got 2 models I’m messing around with...... both are on the field play-ins to populate the brackets. Notre Dame is a ‘turd in the punch bowl’, so to speak. :wink:


......an exercise in futility. :D :D :D
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby donovan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:12 pm

Notre Dame, BYU, New Mexico State, Liberty, and UMass made the decision to be Independent. That means that they get games when and where they can but do not get to be in the Championship pool. And that cuts both ways. Maybe the best team is an Independent and if so, then the National Championship doesn't work. Before politics got involved, it worked. Few Bowls and lots of discussion.
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Mountainman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:37 pm

donovan wrote:Notre Dame, BYU, New Mexico State, Liberty, and UMass made the decision to be Independent. That means that they get games when and where they can but do not get to be in the Championship pool. And that cuts both ways. Maybe the best team is an Independent and if so, then the National Championship doesn't work. Before politics got involved, it worked. Few Bowls and lots of discussion.



Understood, just attempting to find a way to be inclusive and these independents lack a 13th game.

I’m working backwards, so to speak, to not add more than the 15th game by using what currently are regular season game slots and the Conference Championship Game.... this practice of gaming the regular season schedule with powderpuffs is a product of a flawed system that permits the practice and in reality promotes the practice. My thoughts are if we’re attempting to ‘decide it on the field by winning’ and take the subjectivity and politics out of the qualifying process then the level of competition matters throughout the season.

Hell, even Saban and Malzahn came out the other day saying the SEC should go back to 9 Conference Games.
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Spence » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:27 pm

Good for Sabin for not liking the schedule the conference wants them to play. There schedule, if you think about it, relies hard on politics and the assumption that the SEC us unmatched in it's strength. If you think about it, that is the exact same model that Notre Dame used for years and years. They played three or four really tough games a year, but only on their terms. Almost always they played(play) a tough game out of the gate followed by a couple easy games, then a tough game, another easy game, then a tough one 3/4's into the season then finish out with a couple games that should be easy, then the last game( the one everyone remembers) with a tough opponent. That other opponent rarely had the luxury of having an easy game or bye before playing them. Now look at Alabama's schedule and tell me it isn't set up the same way.
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Re: Anybody See Where.....

Postby Cane from the Bend » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:28 am

---

The ACC made it more difficult for Notre Dame to get away with that practice, because they wouldn't give ND the 3 game deal they had with the Big East, and forced the Dome into a 5 game conference lock each year. And ND does not get the luxury of choosing which ACC opponents they'll face, or what week they appear on the schedule.

The problem this year, is that Notre Dame's fixed ACC opponents weren't what expected when the schedules were made. Florida State, Pitt & Virginia Tech aren't at the level hoped back when the schedules were generated.

Spence is right.

Alabama's schedule strength is piggy backing on the presumption of the SEC's overall strength. Though, LSU has 3 losses, Mississippi St has 4 losses and Auburn has 5 losses.

Mississippi State was heralded as being one of the strongest teams in the Country every week by the media, as they reminded us how "Insert the SEC Opponent Here" still had to face this tough ranked Bulldogs team --- yet, after Alabama shut them out, Missi State was 6-4, then finished their season with wins over Arkansas & Ole Miss, 2 teams which are not even Bowl eligible, to end the year 8-4.

LSU had struggled on offense all season long. Auburn has been downright inept at times.

Georgia was the only team who gave `Bama a game. And if you look at the Conference from top to bottom, Georgia is the only team that has been consistent [in a successful way] week to week in the SEC, outside of Alabama.

Is Georgia really the second best team in the country..?

It seems that they have an argument to say so. But, that argument is only as good as the conversation assumes the SEC is the end all and be all mecca of College Football.

Now take Notre Dame's schedule.

It doesn't have the appearance of Schedule Strength ... however; tell me what your data field calculates using this as your Criteria ~

First Subtract any Outside Secondary Rhetoric [media + peer opinion/spousal influence]
+
Analyze the following Metric vs Singular Perspective Subjectivity

_____________________________________________________________________________

Alabama: 13-0

Alabama played FCS opponent Citadel
Alabama has wins over 9 Power5 teams [10 with CCG]
Alabama has won their Conference Championship
Alabama is undefeated

Schedule Opponent Win-Loss Record: 74-69 | 85-71

Louisville 2-10
Arkansas State 8-4
Ole Miss 5-7
Texas A&M 8-4 [common opponent with Clemson]
Louisiana [UL-Lafayette] 7-6
Arkansas 2-10
Missouri 8-4 [common opponent with Georgia]
Tennessee 5-7 [common opponent with Georgia]
LSU 9-3 [common opponent with Georgia]
Mississippi State 8-4
[FCS] Citadel 5-6
Auburn 7-5 [common opponent with Georgia]
Georgia 11-2 [conference champion opponent]

____________________________________________________________________________

Clemson: 13-0

Clemson played FCS opponent Furman
Clemson has wins over 10 Power5 teams [11 with CCG]
Clemson has won their Conference Championship [versus Pitt, who ND also beat]
Clemson is undefeated

Schedule Opponent Win-Loss Record: 82-60 | 89-66

[FCS] Furman 6-4
Texas A&M 8-4 [common opponent with Alabama]
Georgia Southern 9-3
Georgia Tech 7-5 [common opponent with Georgia]
Syracuse 9-3 [common opponent with Notre Dame]
Wake Forest 6-6 [common opponent with Notre Dame]
NC State 9-3
Florida State 5-7 [common opponent with Notre Dame]
Louisville 2-10 [common opponent with Alabama]
Boston College 7-5
Duke 7-5
South Carolina 7-5 [common opponent with Georgia]
Pittsburgh 7-6 [conference champion opponent -- common opponent with Notre Dame]

____________________________________________________________________________

Notre Dame: 12-0

Notre Dame does not have any FCS schools on their Schedule
Notre Dame has wins over 10 Power5 Conference teams
Notre Dame has wins over 2 teams from Conference Championship games
Notre Dame is undefeated

Schedule Opponent Win-Loss Record: 75-70

Michigan 10-2 [common opponent with Ohio St]
Ball State 4-8
Vanderbilt 6-6 [common opponent with Georgia]
Wake Forest 6-6 [common opponent with Clemson]
Stanford 8-4
Virginia Tech 6-6
Pittsburgh 7-6 [conference champion opponent to Clemson]
Navy 3-10 [obligatory perennial contracted game]
Northwestern 8-5 [conference champion opponent to Ohio St]
Florida State 5-7 [common opponent with Clemson]
Syracuse 9-3 [common opponent with Clemson]
USC 5-7

_____________________________________________________________________________

Oklahoma: 12-1

Oklahoma does not have any FCS schools on their Schedule
Oklahoma has wins over 9 Power5 teams [10 with CCG]
Oklahoma has won their Conference Championship
Oklahoma has 1 loss [but won a rematch vs that team]

Schedule Opponent Win-Loss Record: 74-70 | 83-74 [after playing Texas twice]

Florida Atlantic 5-7
UCLA 3-9
Iowas State 8-4
Army 10-2
Baylor 6-6
Texas {loss} 9-4
TCU 6-6 [common opponent with Ohio St]
Kansas State 5-7
Texas Tech 5-7
Oklahoma State 6-6
Kansas 3-9
West Virginia 8-3
Texas 9-4 [conference champion opponent]

_____________________________________________________________________________

Georgia: 11-2

Georgia played FCS opponent Austin Peay
Georgia has wins over 8 Power5 teams
Georgia lost their Conference Championship
Georgia has 2 losses [after CCG]

Schedule Opponent Win-Loss Record: 83-59 | 96-59

[FCS] Austin Peay 5-6
South Carolina 7-5 [common opponent with Clemson]
Middle Tennessee 7-5
Missouri 8-4 [common opponent with Alabama]
Tennessee 5-7 [common opponent with Alabama]
Vanderbilt 6-6 [common opponent with Notre Dame]
LSU 9-3 {loss} [common opponent with Alabama]
Florida 9-3
Kentucky 9-3
Auburn 7-5 [common opponent with Alabama]
UMass 4-8
Georgia Tech 7-5 [common opponent with Clemson]
Alabama 13-0 {loss} [conference champion opponent]

____________________________________________________________________________

Ohio State: 12-1

Ohio State does not have any FCS schools on their Schedule
Ohio State has 10 wins over Power5 teams [11 with CCG]
Ohio State won their Conference Championship [versus Northwestern, who ND also beat]
Ohio State has 1 loss

Schedule Opponent Win-Loss Record: 67-77 | 75-82

Oregon State 2-10
Rutgers 1-11
TCU 6-6 [common opponent with Oklahoma]
Tulane 6-6
Penn State 9-3
Indiana 5-7
Minnesota 6-6
Purdue {loss} 6-6
Nebraska 4-8
Michigan State 7-5
Maryland 5-7
Michigan 10-2 [common opponent with Notre Dame]
Northwestern 8-5 [conference champion opponent -- common opponent with Notre Dame]

____________________________________________________________________________

To remain objective, I will not include further commentary where I could indicate or lead someones opinion, so as not to skew the first dynamic of the formula from a peer's vantage, other than it seems the only 13th data point configuration that effects Notre Dame is where all 13 games are wins = Alabama & Clemson as these are the only two teams who have reached said win total -- Note That: UCF has 12 wins after their Conference Championship victory.

Keep in Mind also, the Playoff Committee Members change yearly. So the Subjective Singular Perspective model is going to very season by season.

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